Diagnosed with PLE

[ChristyM]

This is my fist time on this message board and I am here because I just don't know what to do. About a month and a half ago, my rott was diagnosed with protein-losing enteropathy. This was after weeks of diarrhea. (He was living at my in-laws house and they, unfortunately didn't notice anything was wrong right away.) The vet pretty much gave us no hope. She put him on Hill's prescription i/d and gave us Metronidazole. His condition has only worsened; severely swollen abdomen, swollen hind legs, and really bony. I did some research online and found that some dogs have had success with home-cooked diets. Now, I am just wondering if it is too late to start him on a special diet. He is really having difficulty walking. So, if anyone has experienced this....I would appreciate any input I can get.

[chivas]

moondog is very knowledgable on this subject, hopefully she will see this thread, if not do a search on her name.

[ChristyM]

Thanks for the info! I read about what Moondog did with Luna and that is what got my hopes up. Only...I am afraid Kodi is too far along. However, I decided its never too late to try something that could save his life so I am starting a cottage cheese and rice diet. Hopefully he will improve.

[Ninasmom]

Hi Christy;

First, let me say that I am so sorry about your boy's diagnosis. You don't say how old he is. Please tell us something about him when you get the chance. Now, I'll tell you about my girlie, Nina.

Nina was diagnosed with PLE and extensive 'other' food allergies when she was 18 months old. She has just passed her 9th birthday. Albeit, Nina's a rarity - we NEVER thought she'd live to see 9; but she's also proof to not give up hope.

The first thing I can tell you is get your boy off of the Hills. It's cancer in a bag. I HATE that food; Nina couldn't stomach the stuff and it sounds like your guy can't either. I'm attaching some links to this post, read them. They are conversations about Nina and Luna (moondog's girl) and living with PLE. Please know PLE never goes away but it can be controlled for long periods of time and a high quality of life can be maintained for you and your dog. In Nina's youth, she was once described by our vet as "the healthiest sick dog" she'd ever seen.

The second thing I can tell you is to find a new vet, one who is inclined toward hollistic medicines. Both Luna and Nina did well because of hollistic foods/medicines and vets who were inclined to 'try anything'.

http://www.rottweiler.net/forums/nut...n-sources.html

http://www.rottweiler.net/forums/vet...ein-again.html

http://www.rottweiler.net/forums/vet...ilestones.html

http://www.rottweiler.net/forums/rai...1637-luna.html

Overall, the bottom line is be open and willing to try anything. Patti (moondog) will probably see this soon and ring in as well. Good luck with your boy.

[ChristyM]

Sorry I didn't give much info about Kodi! He is actually believed to be rott/shepherd mix. My husband got him from the pound 7 years ago so we think he is at least 8 years old. Before he got sick, he was a very healthy, active, happy dog. He acted like a puppy. We thought we had a long time before anything like this happened. We are not ready to say goodbye so I am going to try anything I can to get him back on track! I just wish I would have done this research a little sooner. What the vet gave us isn't helping and she implied that we should be looking into Euthanasia. Now I am afraid I have waited to long because we didn't think there was any hope.

Thanks for the info on Hill's dog food. I will take him off of it. I am going to go to the vet on Monday to see if he should be on Prednisone instead of Metronidazole. According to one page I just went to, they do just about the same thing but the Metr. should be taken with corticosteroids.

Thanks for all your help! I really appreciate it.

[moondog]

Originally Posted by ChristyM

This is my fist time on this message board and I am here because I just don't know what to do. About a month and a half ago, my rott was diagnosed with protein-losing enteropathy. This was after weeks of diarrhea. (He was living at my in-laws house and they, unfortunately didn't notice anything was wrong right away.) The vet pretty much gave us no hope.

Christy, Hi! I am in New York until late Monday and stealing bits of time on a borrowed computer so can't get into too much detail until I get home, but I do want to ask a couple questions....

Did the vet get him on prednisone? If not, he will definately need it to help reduce the inflammation, which should help with the fluid retention in his belly and legs. Do you know what his protein levels came back as for albumin and globulin? Did the vet test for parasites (giardia, coccidia, cryptosporidium)? Does your dog have any allergies that were present before he got sick? How oild is he?

Originally Posted by ChristyM

Now, I am just wondering if it is too late to start him on a special diet. He is really having difficulty walking. So, if anyone has experienced this....I would appreciate any input I can get.

No, it is NOT too late to try....and better than not trying. A home-cooked diet is the ONLY way to go for this as far as I'm concerned, as it is the only thing that has worked for all but one of the dogs I have experience with that have PLE. Commercial diets are just too complicated and hard for the dog to process.

I heard the euthanasia word the day my Luna was diagnosed, and I have since come to know a couple of reasons why vets are so quick to suggest it. My feeling is that the single biggest reason for this is because so much of what needs to be done to successfully manage PLE is out of the vet's hands and into the owner's, because once the dog is on proper medications, diet is SO very important to managing the disease and there are nuances that occur along the way that only the owner is in a position to observe. It takes both meds and diet to manage. I asked Luna's vet about that and he said the reason so many dogs with PLE are euthanized is because the owner's either can't do what's needed, or just don't want to. The second reason is that most vets have very little experience with PLE, let alone successful management of it.

The threads that Nina linked have a ton of info in them, so do read them a couple of times through. Consider consulting a veterinary internal medicine specialist that specializes in gastroenterology as they are going to be much more experienced with a relatively uncommon condition like this and will have more to offer your dog.

I will be back on Monday night, and will check in again then.

[Geri]

I have a Rottie bitch who is almost 14 with PLE and shes been dealing with it since 2005 - She is on FortiFlora ( supplement in food - made by Purina)
Imuran, and diet wise she does best on Eukanuba Low Residue - I tried I/D, H/A, OM, EN, lol and anything else you can think of. Her Albumin, Total protien and Globulin are consistently very low.
There has been a signifigant response to the imuran which she was started on recently.
She had the same issue - months of diarrhea. My fiance is a veterinarian so believe me when i say we have tried EVERYTHING lol.
So far the above things have worked the best - now if she gets ANYTHING and i mean ANYTHING other then her Euk Low residue diet she breaks with diarrhea and to get that under control she responds much better to Sulfasalasine and Endosorb. There is also some school of thought a month of treatment with Doxycycline works also. We did this and did have some positive results.
She has her good days and her bad - today she was inappetant this morning and had some troubles getting up. But now shes fine. I just takeit in stride. She was also on Rimadyl for her arthritis but we recently switched her to Tramadol which has been working much better. The Rimadyl was giving her diarrhea. I used to just supplement her food with fatty acids and fish oils but she cant handle them anymore.
Morale of the story : Dont give up hope!!!! Shes almost 14 and is still trucking along happy as ever - still likes to play ball and go for walks! Good luck - I hope some of this helps.

[Geri]

I forgot to say a few things in my previous post -Aribia also has Diabetis Insipidus and ihas Hypothyroid. lol. Her list goes on forever - these are all things she has been dealing with for years. I raw feed all my dogs - so having her on kibble isnt really ideal for me but its what works for her ( at the moment - things will change soon im sure) Steroids are good for some dogs - with her other issues steroids arent ideal for her - we did try a short course ( 2 weeks ) and she didnt show any improvment - but thats ok - every dog is different - I agree about finding a new vet - I hope your baby feels better soon!!

[ChristyM]

I just want to say thank you to all of you! Your support means so much to me and Kodi! I am amazed at how truly caring and helpful you all are!

Originally Posted by moondog

Did the vet get him on prednisone? If not, he will definately need it to help reduce the inflammation, which should help with the fluid retention in his belly and legs. Do you know what his protein levels came back as for albumin and globulin? Did the vet test for parasites (giardia, coccidia, cryptosporidium)? Does your dog have any allergies that were present before he got sick? How oild is he?

The vet gave us metronidazole. I am going to go in on Monday to see about getting prednisone. I do not have his levels for globulin but his albumin came back very low at 1.1. The vet did not test for any parasites. I will ask about that too on Monday. He did not have any allergies that we were aware of. He is at least 8 years old. My husband got him from the pound a little over seven years ago.

I read some of your earlier posts and I switched his diet from Hill's i/d to cottage cheese and rice yesterday at about two. I have been feeding him a little bit every two hours and he seems to be doing well. He really likes the food. Do you think it would be too much at once if we add a little tofu to the mix? My husband is really concerned with his loss of muscle. First and foremost, we want to reduce the amount of fluid in his legs and abdomen, though.

[ChristyM]

Geri,

Thanks for sharing your experience! After all your dog has been through, I have a little more hope. I will ask the vet about the medicines you mentioned. We have not been able to stop Kodi's diarrhea since he was diagnosed...poor pup. I got him some chew toys to try to boost his morale. He has been really mopey lately but he enjoyed tearing the toy to shreds :)

[Geri]

LoL - Thats always a fun game - toys normally only last about 15 minutes in my house before they are dead!! LoL - Good luck - I hope he starts to feel better soon!!!

[Ninasmom]

Be careful with the shredding of the toys. If he swallows any of it, it will cause a reaction with the PLE. His digestive tract is reactive right now and you don't want to do anything to make it worse.

Another thing -- be careful with metronitozle (aka flagyl). Nina had been on it a dozen times and then the last time we had her on it, it almost killed her. You can predict Kodi's symptom now, so if you notice ANY changes, make sure you take him to the vet immediately.

We've had limited luck in the past with commercial foods. Right now, Canidae is being very good to her. If you are going to try and stick with the commercial foods, go with one with the least ingredients, the least addititives and low protein. Also, you can add water to it and soften it up. One of the major problems dogs with PLE have is that their bodies cannot break down the protein bonds in the food. By adding water and turning it to mush, you are actually starting the digestion process and making it easier for Kodi's system. If you are home cooking, you should run everything through a food processor as well, for the same reasons.

[ChristyM]

Thanks for the tip on adding water to dry food. I just started him on a home cooked diet and I am going to see how well it works over the next few days. I will also look into canidae.

I am going to go to the vet tomorrow and see about switching the metronidazole to prednisone. I think I am also going to see about switching to the other vet in the office! I have dealt with him in the past and he is much more informative and compassionate!

[Sam's Mom]

As you can tell...You have come to the right place....the people here are so knowlegable (sp?) and caring. Just wanted to let you know...saying a little prayer and sendings paw hugs your way.

[ChristyM]

Another question.....

I went to the vet this morning to see about getting prednisone. After pleading my case, the vet approved but she gave me prednisolone. I looked them up to see what the difference is and now I am wondering if the difference is significant in this case. Should Kodi be on one opposed to the other or does it not matter?