Lymphangiectasia help

[Artworks]

Hi - I'm new here and am loooking for help and advice. My dog with diagnosed with secondary lymphangiectasia and IBD. She is on white fish and potatos and 2 egg whites per day. She has been on this since March. She is loosing weight so fast and is skin and bones. She is also on Vitamin D and E, and I give her B12 shots each day, we just started Prednisone 1 week ago. Her stools are soft serve ice cream and she's going about 5-6 times a day. Stools are a bit better, it was pea soup and 8-10 times a day. We are thinking of trying MCT oil because she's isn't gaining weight. When you pull her skin it just sticks up, no elastic in it anymore. I know there are a couple of you on here that have dogs with this and have had great results. I'm scared I will loose her, not sure what else to do. I'm working with a holistic vet here in Mission Viejo California...my dog is a resuce and came to me with ghardia (sp?) and chronic diahrea. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Alisa

[Alaskan]

I haven't had my dog's intestines biopsied but BOTH vets I've taken him to have said he has the same thing that your dog has judging by all of his symptoms and we've been fighting it for a few months now. They have finally put him on FOUR different meds. The most expensive is called Baytril but it's supose to have the bacterial overgrowth under control within the time he is on it for ten days. He also takes metronidezdo (if I have that spelled right) for a few more days. The other two meds are prednisolone and anitrobe. I believe these meds are a combo of antibiotics and a steroid. They then put him on a LOW FAT diet.

He's only been on these a couple of days so I can't say how well they'll work but the vet seems confident that he'll be fine within a month. He'll be on the low fat food for the rest of his life however. He is as thin as you say your dog is too. Hopefully these meds will work.

[Artworks]

I hope all of it helps....what type of low fat diet is he on? We are only doing Prednisone right now. The big deal for me right now is getting weight back on her and it's not happening. Good luck!!!!

[hokisteph5]

In case you haven't seen this thread, it seems like it has a lot of good info for you.

[moondog]

My beloved Luna developed lymphangiectasia just before her 6th birthday. I was scared to death, as I was truly watching her die before my eyes. I SO understand what you're going through.

Here is another thread that may be of help to your dog: PLE Milestones

Originally Posted by Artworks

We are thinking of trying MCT oil because she's isn't gaining weight.

While MCT in theory is valuable for a dog that can't tolerate fats, I absolutely would NOT introduce the MCT until she has stabilized and has solid stools. I can guarantee you, you will not be able to give her enough to have any significant impact on weight gain. I had to be VERY careful how much Luna got, and VERY careful to increase the dose in miniscule increments. Whenever Luna experienced an upset, the MCT was the FIRST thing I needed to remove in order to re-stabilize her.

Is the diet you are feeding home-prepared or commercial?

[Artworks]

I'm so glad you responded...I have read all the previous posts about Luna. I'm feeding her homemade diet - baked white fish, white potatos and 2 egg whites. She has been on this since March. NO change...until we introduced the prednisone 7 days ago, her stools are not solid, more like soft serve ice cream but that is a huge huge improvement over her projectile stools. My vet first thought the MCT would be good, but then read some bad things about it and decided to hold off, but he recommended it again because we can't keep weight on her - I don't think she can loose anymore weight. She is lifeless, I look into her eyes and I don't see anything back, she is so thin, her bones are sticking out....what can I do to help her gain some weight?
Alisa

[moondog]

The first home-prepared diet I tried with Luna was potato and ground turkey. The problem with potato is that it is a very low calorie carb, and it is very difficult, if not impossible, to get enough potato in them to sustain/gain weight.

And carbs are VERY important, as they are what provide energy for the body so the limited amount of protein these dogs can tolerate can be used by the body to repair cells.

One of the "transition" carbs I used with a LOT of success early on, was tapioca. It is fairly void of nutrition, but that actually worked in our favor I think.....there is very little content other than very easily digested carbohydrate which means there is very little to upset the digestive tract further. Luna loved the stuff and I think that was the starting point of going from barely hanging on to actual weight gain. It takes a LONG time to gain the weight back (it took her a full year), but tapioca seems to be something the dogs like that also "sticks to their ribs". I think it's a great transition carb source for very sick dogs.

From the tapioca, we went to rice, which she couldn't tolerate at all in the beginning, but ultimately wound up being very well tolerated AFTER she stabilized from the initial onslaught (it was months later that I reintroduced it). In retrospect, the biggest problem for Luna was she couldn't digest meat sources of protein for any length of time, so when I discovered the benefits of fresh tofu.....man, it was a godsend. I've known MANY IBD/PLE dogs that have done extremely well with tofu as a main source of protein in their diet, so it's well worth considering.

This is the mother lode of topics, and overwhelming when first faced with it.....so I will help in any way I can. Just ask away....

[moondog]

I just noticed you're in Los Angeles.....where abouts? I live in Woodland Hills (west valley) and work in Culver City.

[Alaskan]

The vet put sabor on eukanuba weight control due to the LOW fat content in it. It's to early to know how well he'll do but the meds should be kicking in soon. He doesn't mind taking 5 1/2 pills twice a day either which makes it so much easier.

Your dog sounds exactly like mine as far as body condition. The vets here say they see it all of the time in rotties and german shepherds.

[Artworks]

Thanks so much. I emailed my vet and he said that the holistic supplements you are using are worth a try - so I might try them. Also, he suggested to get her subcutaneous fluid therapy because of her tenting of the skin.
Have you heard of this? SO...maybe I should get her off the potato and try tapioca - would I use the same amount of tapicoa as potato? I'd love to get her on rice, never tried it.

[moondog]

Most controlled diets (those diets intended to allow the intestinal tract to rest) use cottage cheese and white rice as the initial protein and carb choices, as these foods are usually the ones most tolerable for a dog with inflammation in the intestinal tract, and the most easily digested. For a dog with lymphangiectasia, the cottage cheese needs to be non-fat and generic. Luna did very well with store brand non-fat cottage cheese, and could not tolerate Knudsen's (they actually put CREAM in their non-fat cottage cheese - go figure). Read labels!

If a dog does not do well with one or the other, then tofu is the next best protein choice (uncooked), and tapioca the next best carb source.

I used a ratio by volume of 75% carb to 25% protein for Luna, which worked well for her. It took her a long time to be able to tolerate meat sources of protein (she couldn't eat any fish without consequences) other than baby food chicken which I would swirl through the top of her food to add a bit of enticement. Once she stabilized, using cottage cheese and tofu as the protein sources, I was able to add a bit of shredded chicken, but she never could tolerate much meat in her diet. Egg whites she did fine with, but the yolks were too high in fat, so I could only use a teeny bit.

I bought the tapioca at an Asian market - it's much, MUCH cheaper there than in the supermarket. I cooked it with water instead of milk and added egg whites to it, you could also use broth to cook it in.

I would start off by adding about 1/2 cup of cooked tapioca to your potato, and gradually swap out the potato with an increasing amount of tapioca over a week or so, to give your dog's system time to develop the digestive enzymes needed. This way you also will be able to see how your dog does with it without doing a complete swap all at once. Tapioca (and also white rice) tends to help with the diarrhea. Small, frequent meals are always best - I fed Luna a small amount every 2-3 hours in the beginning, and gradually increased amounts and decreased the number of meals to 4.

Does your dog have a good appetite?

[Artworks]

Hi - I live and work in Culver City! My husband and I own a children's art studio on washington & helms...where do you work?

Daisy has a huge appetite....never ending. Thanks for all the info. We increased her pred. to 10mg 2x a day and will only do that for 5 days and then see where she is. Her stools are better than they have been for a while, not firm, but not projectile, now we are working on her weight and trying to firm up those stools. I made some tapioca last night (used egg whites - but I did use non-fat soy milk (not water)...should I not use that since it has the soy milk in it? I added 1/2 cup to her daily mix of food. I'm not going to change her protein source right now, would like to see how the Pred. works first before I go changing her food. It's always a huge mess when I change things with her diet. I'll keep you posted.
Alisa

[moondog]

Well, it's a small world - I know exactly where you are! I work for an architectural design studio about 1/2 mile from you right near Fairfax and Washington. I'd love to stop by and introduce myself...shall I pop in and say "HI!"?....

The soy milk might be a really good choice - it's a bit higher in carbs than tofu, but proportionately equal in fat and protein. If she has any upset at all, take the soy milk out and use water first, although I have a feeling she may do well with it.

I completely agree with not changing your protein source - I only changed one thing at a time, if any change was needed - otherwise it's next to impossible to figure out what is causing any upset.

Prednisone was a life-saver for Luna. It's a powerful drug but sometimes the only alternative. I was able to reduce her dose to alternate day 5mg on down the road a bit, and side effects were non-existent at that dose. The Traumeel, with it's anti-inflammatory qualities, helped me with the ability to keep the pred dose low.

[moondog]

Originally Posted by Artworks

Also, he suggested to get her subcutaneous fluid therapy because of her tenting of the skin. Have you heard of this?

I forgot to reply to this: These are subcutaneous fluids to help keep her hydrated. The tenting is due to dehydration. Luna never needed these, but I would have done it in a heartbeat if she did.

One thing you can do to get more fluids in her is to make her meals more soupy by adding water, broth, etc. She can get quite a bit of fluid from her home-cooked meals.

Does she drink water regularly? If not, the pred should help by increasing thirst and reducing inflammation in her intestinal tract to lessen the fluid loss.

[Artworks]

I'd love for you to come by the studio - you can meet and see Daisy, we bring her most days. When would you like to come by? Are you coming back to Culver City for the Art Walk tomorrow? We aren't doing the fluid therapy - Dr. doesn't think it's from dehydration, but from loss of collagen, she drinks plenty, always has.