Early spaying- Good idea???

[DogtorJ]

Hi Everyone,

Here is something I posted on another forum that I thought you might be interested in. This is a hot topic...or at least should be. NOW, don't get all in lather like some have, suggesting that I am against spay and neuter programs to prevent overpopulation. That is NOT the point of the post. The point is that responsible pet owners should have the correct information in front of them and be able to make an informed decision before spaying or neutering their beloved pet. They should know that it is NOT a procedure without potential long-term repercussions and when done, should be preceeded by some changes in diet and environment (described below) to lessen those repercussions.

So, get ready. This is gonna be a bit different. (The only problem is that I concentrated on spaying when the poster was talking about neutering her male. BUT, all that I wrote applies to BOTH sexes, as progesterone is produced by the testicles and ovaries.)

I hope it helps. Feel free to contact me about this.
John

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Original Post-

I *think* E. is finally ready to be neutered. But I admit, I'm very nervous about this and keep putting off the phone call. For those of you that don't know, E. has EPI and food allergies. Both seem to be under control now and have been for a few months. E. went from 74 lbs down to 62 lbs. His last weigh in 2 weeks ago was at 68.6 lbs.My vet thinks that E. being underweight is a non-issue. I know this is probably a good time to do this because everything seems to be under control.

But what if I'm wrong? What if there is an underlying issue that I don't know about and putting him under the knife makes it flair up? What if putting him under the knife causes some kind of distress and I lose him? I don't have humping or wandering issues with E.. He's with us at all times and is not off-leash outside of our yard.

Am I being an over-protective worry-wart? Should I wait until he regains all his weight and really be sure he's stable? Any thoughts are greatly appreciated.

*****************

My response-

Hi T.,

Well, I was just about to hit some golf balls on my day off...'til I saw this post.

Here is the latest news flash for all of you. Get ready 'cause this is going to be a JOLT until you understand it. Then it should make all of the sense in the world to you (except for what you have been told in the past). Ready???

Spaying and neutering can be one of the most detrimental things we can do to the health of the dog (or cat...OR PERSON!!!), especially those who have been fighting chronic illnesses leading up to that surgery. "Say WHAT???" you are all saying.

Let me put it to you this way. When is the biggest (medical)crisis in a woman's life? Menopause, right? Yes, countless women are quiet healthy until they become peri-menopausal or go through menopause, either naturally or surgically. Shortly thereafter, their rate of immune-mediated diseases and cancer skyrocket. It happens all of the time. I hear from MANY of these women because of my Website which covers this VITAL issue. Why does this happen?

Very simply because women have something very special coursing through their veins. It is called progesterone. (Men do, too, as it is also produced by the testicles!) Progesterone is a POWERFUL anti-inflammatory. It is actually stronger than cortisone, as proven by vets who used Ovaban (progesterone) to treat cats with allergic skin disease when the prednisone stopped working. Hmmmm... Did you get that??? That's VERY important.

SO, what happens when a pet is spayed or neutered??? YES, they are literally THROWN into "menopause", with their progesterone levels suddenly plummeting. And what was that progesterone doing? It was keeping certain occult/subclinical inflammatory conditions under control (allergies, asthma, IBS, and immune-mediated diseases like lupus, rheumatoid disease, MS/peripheral neuropathies, and many more) It is JUST like taking a dog with severe allergies that has been controlled with cortisone off of his medication. What happens (if you have not gotten to the root of his allergies beforehand)? BOOM...he is scratching and pulling his hair out.

BUT, it gets MUCH deeper and more serious than this. Recent veterinary studies (especially in Rotties) have shown that dogs that are spayed have a MUCH higher rate of bone cancer than unspayed dogs or those spayed late in life. Wow! Now it would take waaaay too long to explain this completely but this does make total sense once you understand lectins, viruses and their interaction along with the immune systems control of this process. Progesterone is VITAL in moderating this process. BUT, this hormone is basically, simply buying you time. It is helping to keep this process covered-up until you are overwhelmed by it later IF you do not do something about it before hand.

And it is not like we are not getting warning signs, right? The heartburn, IBS, chronic fatigue, joint pain, migraines, ADHD, insomnia, etc etc etc are ALL warning signs, not bona fide diseases. They are screaming at us that we doing something very wrong, with our diets being the biggest wrong. Whodathunk heartburn (or vomiting in the dog) was a warning sign, eh?

This will turn the spay and neuter ideas upside down. It is already happening as we have learned that the ovaries and testicles are not just for breeding. (Man, are we short-sighted). Yes, it is important to control the stray population. I am not suggesting otherwise. BUT, for the responsible owner to spay their dog too early could be cataclysmic to their health, especially is they do not prepare them properly.

And there IS a way to prepare them (and prevent mammary cancer the RIGHT way). Get them off of the "big 4" (gluten, dairy, SOY, and corn). These foods are not only doing the intestinal harm, but they are providing LOADS and LOADS of estrogens to the dog (and people). Progesterone is the antidote to estrogen and when an individual is spayed or goes through menopause, they are left holding the BIG bag of estrogens, which are inflammatory, neurostimulating and immune suppressive by nature. Again, this cane be CATACLYSMIC to the health of the individual, especially women (and female dogs). Anyone who knows anything about women's health can see the truth in this.

Here's the good news. The ovaries do not produce enough estrogen to set the stage for the virus that causes breast cancer. Now that was a loaded statement. Did you get it all? Yes, VIRUSES cause breast cancer just like other cancers. Put "breast cancer, virus" in your search. You will also read about the upcoming breast cancer vaccine (Hey, just like the cervical cancer vaccine. Whadyaknow?)

And, estrogens ARE a major player in the development of breast cancer because they are inflammatory and immune suppressive, a deadly combo when viruses are around. They "LOVE" that kind of stuff.(but see my new section "Viruses- Friend or Foe".) BUT, the ovaries don't produce enough estrogen to do this harm (that is why you CYCLE...to give the "anti-inflammatory" progesterone time to make the recovery). It is the estrogens that we are CONSUMING on top of what we make that breaks our (and their) back. See that? (You don't hear much about the 6000 men per year afflicted by breast cancer, do you? I had to put to sleep an old male dog last week that I removed a malignant mammary tumor from 8 months ago. Where are those estrogens coming from???)

So, when we recommend spaying to prevent breast cancer it is like removing their legs so they don't wander out in the street and get hit by a car. See that? We remove the natural source of estrogen so that they can better tolerate the unnatural sources. Talk about pretzel logic!

And it does help prevent mammary cancer...at the EXPENSE of every other immune-mediated disease which run rampant in the absence of progesterone. Now you know why hypothyroidism occurs sooooo early in the dog. I have had spayed females develop it by 8 months of age.

Bottom line? Listen to your intuitions. You are RIGHT to be nervous about this. You may ultimately want or need to spay (neuter) her (him) later. BUT, she (he) MUST be prepared properly and be healthy. She (He) will be healthier longer if left un-spayed (un-neutered).

I hope this helps,
John


PS. Another HUGE source of estrogens are environmental sources, including insecticides. I am sooo glad that we are on the backside of using so many of the old pesticides. We WILL see less breast cancer as a result of eliminating these. Everyone needs to put "environmental estrogens"in their search, especially women at risk to breast cancer, endometriosis/PCOS, and other estrogen-related disorders. YES, pyometra is chronic endometrial hyperplasia and is an ESTROGEN-related disorder, brought on the combination of too much estrogen and not enough progesterone. And like breast cancer, if we eliminate the outside sources of estrogen, we should not see these ugly things happen.

PSS. Here is one of the Rottie/bone cancer studies- Link did not work

[DogtorJ]

Here is a great link that confirms my concerns:

Canine Sports Productions: Early Spay-Neuter Considerations for the Canine Athlete

And again, here is a link to the Rottie study if you missed it above:

Link still does not work

[BostonRott]

We're quite well aware of this info, it has been discussed many times.

I'm sure you're also quite aware of the fact that there is a drastic difference between progesterone fluxuations in a dog and those in a human and to insinuate that spaying a bitch is at all similar to menopause in a woman is unfounded. Dogs have a long period of time, each cycle, (called anestrous) in which they have very little (sometimes unmeasurable) progesterone in their systems. This goes on for months. Women do not go through this same thing.

Are you sure that the problem with early spaying is not simply do to some wheat intolerance?

[DogtorJ]

I am not sure why that link does not work on this forum. It works on all others on which I have posted it.

I would suggest that interested parties (which all of you Rottie owners/breeders should be) do a Google search for "Rottweiler, bone cancer, spay" . The link I have been trying to provide is the first response ("Endogenous Gonadal Hormone Exposure and Bone Sarcoma Risk"). You can then read a number of other articles that deal with this crucial issue.

I'm sure that many of you are already familiar with this important topic but the response on other forums has been so surprising (first time they heard of this) that I thought I would share it with this forum. After all, we don't want these Rotties getting bone cancer at 6.5 years, do we?

Hope this helps,
John

PS. It is also VERY important that we understand that bone cancer is caused by a VIRUS. Put "osteosarcoma virus" in your search and start reading. Amazing what the authorities know, isn't it? Why isn't that in our veterinary texts yet? Hmmm...

BUT, knowing this changes much, including our approach to the prevention and treatment of this and other cancers. Guess we should take dead aim at the immune system eh? This includes the elimination of all foods capable of disrupting absorption of essential nutrients (gluten grains, dairy, soy and corn).

AND, run from fluoride. You should all be giving non-fluoridated water to your Rotties. Fluoride has been directly tied to bone cancer in children. Again, do a search and you will see all that you need to confirm this.

[BostonRott]

As I said before, this has been discussed extensively on this forum. You'll get no "big stir" here. Trying doing some searches on THIS forum for "osteosarcoma age neuter." Sorry if this takes the wind out of your sails, but it's not new or controversial news to us.

[DogtorJ]

That's great to know. I'm not looking for a "big stir" or "wind in my sails". I simply want people to be informed. And, I think you all should be subscribing to and writing on numerous other forums if you are already convinced of the importance of this vital issue. It IS news to them...and they are not taking it very well.

Unfortunately, your breed has once again become the "martyr", illustrating how important proper feeding, breeding, and this topic and other issues are in the dog world. Celiacs (gluten intolerants) are serving this purpose in the medical field. The good news is that humans will also benefit from what we are finally learning here in veterinay medicine.

So, keep fighting the good fight!

[DogtorJ]

Originally Posted by BostonRott

We're quite well aware of this info, it has been discussed many times.

I'm sure you're also quite aware of the fact that there is a drastic difference between progesterone fluxuations in a dog and those in a human and to insinuate that spaying a bitch is at all similar to menopause in a woman is unfounded. Dogs have a long period of time, each cycle, (called anestrous) in which they have very little (sometimes unmeasurable) progesterone in their systems. This goes on for months. Women do not go through this same thing.

Are you sure that the problem with early spaying is not simply do to some wheat intolerance?

I totally disagree that just because women cycle every month and dogs every 6 months or so makes the "surgical menopause" statement unfounded. There is a lot more going on here than just progesterone levels. The roles of natural estrogens and those of testosterone in women are also very important (e.g. the fact that natural estrogens help to protect against the negative effects of the "mimics' in the environment. Also, look up the role of testosterone in women'shealth.) But, I didn't want to turn this into an in-depth endocrinology lesson. I'm getting enough flack for the length of this post on other forums.

And there are many other factors that make things different between women and dogs, many of which make things even worse for women (funny you would mention wheat intolerance). The relative ABSENCE of dairy in the dog's diet is a big plus for the dog and MAJOR negative for women. Those who are interestded should do a search for "dairy, endometriosis" and you'll see what I mean. Then go to the wise anti-soy sites and see what the newest "health food" is doing to our children, adults, and pets. (Put "Cinderella's Dark Side" in your search.)

So, yes I'm sure that the problem is not "simply 'do' to some wheat intolerance" even though that issue IS a much bigger problem than most understand and does paly a role here. The immune dysfunction, tissue inflammation, and hormone imbalancs that it causes are waaaay beyond the scope of this thread. For more info (for those of you who are interested), go to Celiac Disease Gluten-free Diet Support Center at Celiac.com and see the myriad of conditions that have been linked to gluten intolerance.

[Ilovemypuppy]

Thank-you DogtorJ for this thread...many of us here welcome this information, written in an easy to understand format and will NOT be so quick to try and argue..BUT will listen and learn.

Also , just because this has been discussed before, doesn't mean it shouldn't be again...it should be.

[Mathilde's]

Very interesting - in more than one way. I will check up your links.

[Orchid72]

It is interesting and I will have to check out the links. As for me, it's a personal preference to have a pet spayed or neutered and always will be. But I can keep an open mind and do not mind if this topic has been brought up before.

[newbrunswick]

One thing I've never been able to figure out - why don't we just do a tubal ligation or vasectomy (sp?) - They would still be able to keep their hormones, without the problem of pregnancy???

[Ilovemypuppy]

Originally Posted by newbrunswick

One thing I've never been able to figure out - why don't we just do a tubal ligation or vasectomy (sp?) - They would still be able to keep their hormones, without the problem of pregnancy???

Good point...I if wondered the same thing.

[Ilovemypuppy]

Wisdom at Menopause by Dr. Christine Northrup explains much the same things about estrogen and progesterone and their effects , I have no reason to believe that the same wouldn't be true in dogs or other mammals.

Eat Right for Your Blood Type by Dr. Paul D'Adamo is a great book about the effects of certain foods on specific blood types and the scientific study done on protein lectins and their effects.

DogtorJ , in my opinion, puts the bases of these theories together well pertaining to canines. All the foods he suggests should not be given to dogs, actually should not be given to dogs or to humans.

Much of what we eat and feed today, we are doing so because of slick advertising by multi nationals who are sleeping with chemicals companies.

Note I said "I" NOT "we"...this is my opinion.

[calebmyboy]

Originally Posted by Ilovemypuppy

DogtorJ , in my opinion, puts the bases of these theories together well pertaining to canines. All the foods he suggests should not be given to dogs, actually should not be given to dogs or to humans.

Much of what we eat and feed today, we are doing so because of slick advertising by multi nationals who are sleeping with chemicals companies.

Note I said "I" NOT "we"...this is my opinion.

I agree totally Jory. I have never neutered any of my Rotts, I believe they are better off for that, and I have never had any accidental breedings. Responsible ownership is the key.

I for one also thank DogtorJ for bringing this up, it does not matter how many times before we have seen this here, there are always new people that should have the chance to check this out and research it. And it does not hurt to refresh the minds of the people who are already aware of these things. Thank you DogtorJ for this post.

And I believe the foods we feed them or ourselves certainly does make a difference in our health now and in future years.

[BostonRott]

Tubal ligation would still leave a bitch open to pyometria and increased risk of mammary gland cancer. The pyometria is the scarier part of that equation, it's kinda like bloat or a REAL dog fight: you'll never understand how insidious and scary it is until you've experienced it.