Extra Vaccinations for Rotts, etc. - Why?

[Sara]

I was reading through the US SPCA site, just trying to kill some time, and came across this advice in relation to puppy vaccinations:

"All puppies should be given a five-in-one combination vaccine at 2, 3 and 4 months of age. Rottweilers, Doberman pinschers
and pit bulls also should be vaccinated when they are 5 months old. These shots provide protection from distemper, parvovirus,
hepatitus, parainfluenza and leptospirosis."

Why do these three dogs (who seem to have some misperceptions in common) have to receive extra shots? Is there a medical basis for this or is it purely psychological?

Sara
Proudly owned by Lady and Bear, is it 10 yet?

[Nancy Estes]

These breeds are felt to have weaker immune systems, thus needing more vaccinations. Another school of thought is that over-vaccination leads to susceptibility to the very diseases it's meant to prevent (by over-stimulating the immune system, causing it to *fail*).

Nancy

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von Dorow Rottweilers
doggo1@apex2000.net

[Lady B]

Nancy: Do you vaccinate extra for your dogs due to the vagaries of their immune system? I've heard the arguments, as you stated. The next logical question that follows would be "is there any scientific, documented evidence to support extra immunizations for immuno suppressed breeds?" For myself, I am more inclined not to follow a strict yearly schedule with my adult Rotties (pups are another matter). They are not put in situations where there is a potential for exposure. Vaccines of any kind compromise the immune system even after the antibodies develop for that virus (I am a prime example of that with the flu shots -- I always get sick when I have a flu vaccine, never when I don't). Basic chemistry shows us that when certain elements are combined there is a compromise of other elements. It leads me to wonder if over-vaccination might be one of the causes for cancer, lupus and other auto-immune diseases. Just thoughts but I am wondering what others here know and think about this. I am not always inclined to agree with the drug companies or medical profession, despite having worked in it for over 30 years!!

[Nancy Estes]

There are vets and researchers who do feel that overvaccination is the cause of a host of problems. Dr. Jean Dodds (now in California) was in the forefront of this thinking and thought a quack. While I'm sure there are still people who think that of her, the trend is now toward (1) separating vaccines rather than multiple 7-in-one-type vaccinations to puppies; (2) vaccinating adults every 3 years instead of every year. (Except for rabies, which is subject to state law.) When Parvo was first recognized we had no Parvo vaccine and used Feline Panleukopenia vaccines. This was given ever other week until puppies were anywhere from 12 - 18 weeks old. The three puppies I had (one Rott & two Bassets) all contracted Parvo. Fortunately, they all lived. Nowdays I do not give extra vaccines to puppies; avoid giving them combination vaccines; I don't vaccinate my old dogs for anything; and only vaccinate adults every 3 years. Don't tell the state, please, that I don't vaccinate for Rabies every year either except for a dog that is going out in public.

Nancy

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von Dorow Rottweilers
doggo1@apex2000.net

[Lady B]

Thank's Nancy!! My geriatric cats, ages 14 & 15, have not been vaccinated since age 2 and are so low maintenance it's unbelievable to my vet, but they are a good argument against a yearly vaccination schedule. They are in/out kitties at their will. The worst problem we have had is with my white, Maaya. She has an auto-immune disease -- eosinophilic granuloma -- and requires Pred occasionally. I believe common sense, excellent nutrition and that most important ingredient love has given them longevity. I can only hope Lady-B and Baron will make it past the average with that !!

[Sandy Caruso]

I'm with Nancy. I beleive more problems are created by vaccines than solved. Maybe I am a simple "dumb blonde" however it seems to me a matter of commone sense...if a dog doesn't have a virus, bacteria etc, etc, then why give it one? in the form of a shot? I don't think so. My children never received all the immunizations while they were growing up and they are pictures of health. My feelings regarding my dogs and shots, and my horses and shots are the same as my children. So far so good, (excuse me a minute while I go knock on some wood). If they aren't sick don't make em. There's alot to be said about a healthy diet, clean water, clean air, and a clean place to sleep. This reminds me of the time the local dog catcher (sometimes doubles as a deputy sheriff; perhaps Barney Fife's brother), came to my place and wanted to check my dogs for licenses and rabies tags. I opened the gate to my dog area and said, "Go ahead, help yourself. Check every Rottweiler and I'll wait in the house". He studdered and stammered, concerned about opening each run and checking each dog without my assistance, afraid he would be bitten. I said, Tough toenails, this isn't my job, it's yours." And I calmly went into the house. Within minutes, I watched as he drove away WITHOUT checking for any licenses, rabies tag, etc. Most of my Rotties would probably have licked him to death but he didn't know that expecially since the star of the Salt Lake County Sheriff's Department K-9 is none other than Atticus von Kriegerhof, a Rottweiler who was featured on America's Most Wanted twice. We donated him to Sgt Jim Winder as a 7 week old puppy when another "BIG mouth deputy" called Rottweilers "PIGS on sticks" and "incapable of doing police work"!!! But that's another story. P.S. That "BIG mouth" deputy got canned from the K-9 unit due to his attitude.

[Kiminski]

This is such a difficult thing! My 4 month old pup has been sick for a day and a half after each vaccination. I feel that I am at the mercy of the vets and I hate that feeling. I have ben doing a lot of reading on the subject, but there is so much to learn. He just had a DHLPP-CV booster, intranasal bordetella, and was started on heartguard plus. Ty has been lethargic, had loose stools, no appetite, and has vomited twice since the vet visit 2 days ago. He's a little better today, but he's still sleeping more than usual. He had the same reation the last time, but he was given panacur at that visit for roundworms and I though it was that making him sick. Also when I first got the pup, I was told by so many people that he would be extra prone to parvo that I didn't dare to question the vet about the vaccinations. I have been told that proguard is a better alternative, what do you all think of that?
Thanks, Kim

[Jean]

I was wondering if it's different country different vaccines?? Why our vaccine is 8-in-one at 2,3,4monthes. Extra vaccine once every year 8-in-one,plus rabies ( the advice from every vet).If not for being so busy recently my rottie should have had his yearly vaccine last week.maybe I should reconsider it.

[kayliedog]

I don't agree with not vaccinating your dog. I think it is very irresponsible as an owner to risk your dog's health by not vaccinating. A few days of mild illness from a vaccination is much better than the flow blown disease the vaccine is preventing. My dog gets slightly sick and lethargic after her shots, but I think how much cheaper and better it is for her in the long run. If everyone vaccinated their animals as recommended, we wouldn't have to worry about our animals getting sick in the first place.

[BigBear]

This is a subject that I have taken thought on before... and have wondered if maybe the type of vaccination would change anything??
For instance.... I too have heard that over vaccinating is a bad thing... or is the current thought by some people.....
BUT... this is where I wonder....
Would a Killed virus versus a Modified live virus have any impact on the overall health..( immune systems...etc) .....??
I hope I am not confusing anyone... haha

Bear

[rottie_mama]

There are some vets in Houston and other larger cities in Texas that are recommending semi annual shots for dogs. I spoke to one of the vet's I worked for about this, and he thought it was a brazen attempt to make more money. Our conversation soon turned to the necessity of yearly vaccinations of adult dogs. I can't recall in the 3 years that I worked for the vets an adult dog coming in with distemper, parvo or corona. (I have heard of adult dogs contracting and dying of these diseases, but I never experienced it myself. I guess it would be the exception rather than the rule.) He agreed that it probably wasn't necessary for adult dogs to receive the combination vaccines.

My dogs are soon due for the yearly check up, and I believe this year we will just go with a heartworm check and a rabies vx.

The state of Texas requires that animals be vaccinated yearly for Rabies regardless of the fact that three year rabies vaccines exist. (I for one don't like to break the law hehe, plus my neighbors call the animal shelter any time my dogs think about getting out of the yard.)


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Rachel aka rottie_mama
http://www.geocities.com/Petsburgh/7900

[kayliedog]

Bear...

In response to your question regarding live attenuated vaccines vs. killed vaccines, they do affect the immune system differently. The live vaccines are much more effective in inducing an immune response except that the virus can sometimes revert and cause disease (such as with the Polio vaccine which was replaced by a killed vaccine). But the live vaccines are the best because they more closely resemble the actual virus/bacteria that your dog may encounter. People are actually working on taking the killed vaccines and converting them into live vaccines with more stable mutations so they can't revert. I don't know about if one can over stimulate the immune system and cause autoimmune diseases, etc. I still fully believe the safest thing to do is to follow the recommended vaccination schedules for your dog.

[This message has been edited by kayliedog (edited October 15, 1999).]

[DonnaJo]

Funny this subject should come up. I just recieved the book "The Nature of Animal Healing" by Martin Goldstein, D.V.M. for my birthday and I have been just a reading away. Very good book by the way. Anyhow he has a whole chapter on Vaccines and in it he talks about over vaccinating Rotties for Parvo. He says and I quote " With Rottweilers and the parvo vaccine, the side effect was cancer" In his chapter he talks about Dr. Dobbs a bit and also about the side effects of vaccines, hence the above quote.

[SchIVRotts]

I have four Rotts, three of whom have suffered vaccinosis. We're not just talking about the day after feeling crappy, but lingering problems that are still present four years later. I stopped vaccinating in late 1995; my youngest, now 15 months, had two shots by the breeder, suffered a huge lump on his jaw because of it, and will never be vaccinated again. I did not make a snap decision on this, I researched it, talked to my vet about it (holistic vet) and decided to quit. I have never regretted my decision, my one dog's health is compromised, his teeth are ruined, and I worry how this will affect him in the future. I believe in building up the immune system naturally, with diet, herbs and supplements, and so far the health of my dogs has done nothing but improve. My dogs don't get sick, no matter where I take them or what they've been exposed to. I've seen dogs who are vaccinated to within an inch of their lives every year get extremely ill with parvo. To people who tell me I'm irresponsible by not vaccinating, I ask them, "If your dog is vaccinated, he's protected, right? The vaccination issue is a very hot debate, I believe yearly vaccinations are nothing more than a very lucrative money maker for vets and drug companies. We don't vaccinate ourselves every year, so why do we inflict this horror on our pets? There is tons of information on the internet about vaccine problems in animals as well as humans. I think it's every pet owner's responsibility to do some research on their own, and explore other avenues. There are homeopathic nosodes, for instance, which when used properly, are very safe, and do not cause the problems vaccines do. I'm sorry if this post offends, but I've had too many problems and scares with vaccines and spent too much time worrying about my dog. It tends to make one a little cynical and jaded.

[SchIVRotts]

Oops, silly me. Hit the wrong button. Anyway, from Wendy Volhard's book, The Holistic Guide for a Healthy Dog:

"Immunologists are finding a direct correlation between the increase in autoimmune and chronic disease states and the overuse of vaccines. Breeders have had entire litters wiped out after using Parvo vaccines. Some breeds, notably ROTTWEILERS, who were subjected to weekly doses of Parvo vaccine in the late 1980's, were riddled with bone cancers and died around the age of 4 years. The Lyme disease vaccine is thought to have been responsible for the collapse of some dogs' immune systems, and a recent study at Cornell University suggests that treating the disease is less risky than getting the vaccine."

And then there's this information, a couple pages later:

"According to Robert Kirk, writing in Kirk's Current Veterinary Therapy XI-205, a textbook used in all veterinary schools, there is no immunologic reason that would necessitate annual revaccinations. He tells us that as a practice it lacks scientific validity or verification. Immunity to viruses persists for years or for the life of the dog, and revaccinating does not add to that immunity. Given the potential adverse side effects, it is best not to revaccinate. Presumably the practice developed as a means of bringing the dog owner into the veterinarian's office on an annual basis so the dog could get a checkup."

Food for thought, Leslie