Looking for advice...

[jkruer01]

Hello, first time poster. I'm really struggling with the situation I am going through right now with my Rottie and I am hopping I can get some advice.

I have a 5 1/2 yr old Rottie. When I purchased him I really didn't know anything and didn't purchase him from a reputable breeder. His is full blooded Rottie, but I don't know anything about his parents or bloodlines. I don't know if his parents had their hips tested or any other types of health testing. He fluctuates between 100 and 110lbs. He is very tall for a Rottie. He does not have the typical short stocky Rottie look. Non the less, we love him very dearly.

When he was 1 1/2 yrs old he got an infection in his front left paw. He spent about 2 months at the Emergency Vet and a Vet Specialist. The end result was his skin sloughed off his paw and all but 1 bone in his foot died. After many months of multiple bandage changes per day and many thousands of dollars later he was healed. He has only one bone in his foot. He can put some weight on it but not a lot.

Last friday night we were watching TV and all of a sudden he came limping around the couch with his back right leg tucked up under him and no weight on it at all. We looked at his paw and it was swollen. We took him to the vet the next morning fearing the same thing had happened. They xrayed his foot and could not see anything. They gave him antibiotics and pain pills and told us to keep an eye on it. The swelling went a way but he continued to not put any weight on it. We took him back to the vet today. They xrayed his entire leg and noticed a "fat pocket" in his knee. They pulled at his leg and diagnosed it as a torn ACL. They said there were two surgeries. One was a traditional one that would cost about $1,000. The other requires going to a specialist and costs about $2,500.

The vet seemed to think that this was a degenerative tear because he said it didn't feel like it was torn all they way. He said that if it is degenerative then there is a very high likely hood of the other one tearing within a year. He also seemed to indicate that because of his front leg not being able to bear much weight that the specialized procedure would probably be better.

We have an English Mastiff and the vet said that during the recovery period our Rottie would need to be crated for several months. He also said the two dogs would probably not be able to play together for up to 6 months.

I asked him if the ACL could be from poor breeding and he said they haven't found a cause of degenerative ACL but he seemed to hint that our Rottie might have problems with Hip Dysplasia down the road.

I am struggling with what to do. On the one hand I can't stand the thought of loosing my Rottie. On the other hand I can't stand the thought of having him in a crate for several months and not being able to play with his brother for several more. On top of that, I can't imagine having to go through all of this again if the other one tears within a year. Plus we still don't know for sure that his foot isn't infected.

If we went through all of the heartache and then also had to deal with him getting hip dysplasia down the road I don't know what I would do. I just don't know if I can deal with seeing him in a crate whining and pawing at the crate for many months looking at me with those big brown eyes saying "what did I do?" "why are you mad at me?" "why can't I come out of my crate?"

I think it would be a completely different situation if his foot didn't get infected and loose his toes. However, because of this he has to put more weight on his other legs which causes more stress and strain on the joints than normal.

I have to schedule a consult with the specialist to see what he says but I just don't know what to do. Thankfully the specialist that would do the ACL surger is the same specialist that saw him when he got the infection as a puppy.

I don't know what I am expecting from you guys, but anything thoughts or inputs would be appreciated.

Thanks.

[Miss Greta]

Boy, sorry to hear about everything you are trying to work thru, but I can tell you the people here are great.
I also have a 5 1/2 yo female rott who is a rescue (puppy mill). She has severe hip dysplasia and arthritis. She blew out her left ACL about 2 yrs ago. We wound up going with the simple procedure as the main goal (at least what we were told then) was the TPLO would decrease the risk of arthritis and allow the dog to be much more active (she already had arthritis by then so her activity level was already lower). And, the surgery was on her leg with the "better" hip, which then aggrivated the arthritis and HD on her bad side.
I too was very uncertain how she would handle the crate rest, but she did very well. And she has not had any recurrence of tears.
It will be a very personal decision for you, so ask lots of questions of the doctors. Then weigh all of our advice and I know you will make the right choice for you. Good luck with your guy, and give him a hug.

[Anne]

If you have the TPLO surgery done your dog will not need to be crated for 'months'. The general rehab procedure given to me by the ortho was 6 weeks in the crate with on lead potty breaks. Week 7 a 5 minute walk was allowed and this increased by 5 minutes each week. It also increased at 9 weeks to 2 x walks per day. All onleash.

The total period for crating I was told would be 12 weeks but at 10 week xrays my dog was completely healed and she was no longer required to be in the crate.

[slinger]

Sofie's rehab was much like Anne has stated.

One thing that we did to vary the crate rest was to put her on leash, and hook it to the sofa leg. That way she was able to interact with the family quite a bit more. Of course I wouldn't recommend this for a dog who tends to jump up.

Sofie's rehab went well, and she never did tear the other one.

Good luck to you,
Leanne

[targonrotts]

sorry to hear about your boy's mishaps.
first question, did they xray his hips already? what did they see?
most dogs at some point will get some kind of arthritis on their hips, back or other joints. if he is overweight, this can be aggravated.on the stifle(knee),
as previously stated, the recovery period is more like 12 weeks. leash walks, restrict activity and slowly rehab back. i know quite a few agility dogs that have had this proceedure, and of hyper breeds, and they were contained until given the clear and are doing great.
yes, putting more weight towards the back because of the front foot can cause tears or partial tears. and sometimes while you fix one side and the dog starts to shift his weight, the other side can go too. but in most cases if in good weight and you follow recovery rest and rehab later, he should be fine.
i have seen both his problems numerous times. i saw a rott puppy about 12 years ago with the toes that rott off. it just happened. some kind of immune/bacterial thing. she stayed with 2 toes only. but she managed well. that poor puppy went thru parvo,parasites, the toe thing,etc. she was 4 months when all this happened. she was from a backyard breeder from what i remember.
hope all goes well with your boy. get a second opinion if need be with a ortho specialist.
good luck!

[twomanydogs]

Same as above, My boys recovery time was weeks, not months. I have never crated but only had one dog at that time. It was about a year before his other one tore so he was putting full weight on the repaired one. My boy was way to big and at his last surgury he was 178 pounds. Yes byb..
He did fine again in a matter of weeks after the second repair.
Good luck to you and your boy.

[jkruer01]

Well, here's the problem. I understand that an ACL surgery by itself is not that big of a deal, but after what he already went through it makes it a different situation. Just to help you understand, here are some pictures:

WARNING: Pictures are graphic!!
http://img124.imageshack.us/img124/2295/kona1dj9.jpg
http://img124.imageshack.us/img124/4609/kona2cy2.jpg
http://img157.imageshack.us/img157/7098/kona3nw1.jpg
http://img124.imageshack.us/img124/336/kona4bk9.jpg
http://img157.imageshack.us/img157/712/kona5mr1.jpg
http://img115.imageshack.us/img115/4296/kona6dq8.jpg
http://img115.imageshack.us/img115/7339/kona7ey5.jpg
http://img115.imageshack.us/img115/6097/kona8yg0.jpg
http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/9558/kona9ez1.jpg
http://img115.imageshack.us/img115/5534/kona10aw9.jpg
http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/9893/kona11xs4.jpg

It actually got worse after these pictures and all of the bones except for one fell out. He is left with the equivilant of a pinky toe. The middle two toes on a dog's foot bear the majority of the weight. Because he lost all but his "pinky" toe, he can't bear any weight on it and it is more for balancing. Because of this, even though he has all 4 legs he is more like a dog that only has 3.

Second, you all say it is only a matter of weeks, not months, but 12 weeks is 3 months. If his other one goes out then that is 6 months.

Third, most people here it seems had the surgery when they were 1, 2, or 3 yrs old. Kona will be 6 at the begining of the year.

Fourth, we have a 1.5 yr old English Mastiff and the two dogs LOVE to play with each other. We would pretty much have to keep Kona crated until he was completely healed because otherwise they would end up playing and hurting Kona all over again.

Then not to mention, considering we got Kona from a backyard breeder and he is already getting stiff and soar if he plays a lot. More than likely he will develop hip displaysia and/or arthritis.

On top of all this, the vets still don't know why his paw is sore and swollen on the the leg that has the ACL tear. We think the same infection he had before is back.

[Miss Greta]

The age is not a big deal, I know of a Newfie that had it at 7 and did just great (had the TPLO cause he was very active and competed in obedience and agility). If there is the start of HD, there are many great treatments out there now that can help. Greta's is advanced, but she was diagnosed at 9 mo. just more food for thought, like I said, we can't make your decision, but hopefully with enough info (and a good vet) you will make the right one.

[targonrotts]

then go to an ortho specialist and internal medicine specialist for a second opinion.
i work at a vets. i have seen the foot thing before. animals are amazing at how they compensate for what they lose. i have seen acl surgeries on dogs of all ages, since my boss is an ortho and does them on a regular basis.
all dogs as they age, will slow down somewhat and develope arthritis somewhere.
one agility dog in particular that i know lives with 6 other high drive dogs, had the surgery, and did fine. yes, it's possible to crate the dog and walk seperately until he heals. in my house, when a bitch is in heat, it's 4 weeks of walking separate and crate...and after that, party on again.
most dogs i see at my job are pet store or backyard breeder specials.some are a mess and others turn out ok. but most things in any dog are treatable or fixable.
it's just a matter on how much you are willing to try.
yes, 12 weeks is 3 months. one side. but right now, only one side is at question...and yes, that is if it really is a tear of some sort.
i would get a second opinion. i hope it turns out ok.

[giglz15]

I think you will be surprised at how well they adapt to crate rest, my rot who had never really been in a crate before is adapting well, he had his hip surgery 2 weeks ago. He goes in w/o being told and he doesn't whine or cry while in the crate. As far as not being able to see the other dog, I don't know about your dogs but this am I was sitting on the floor with Duke in the bedroom and the other dogs came in. The new puppy sat right by his head and they played completely laying down just kinda biting each others mouths. The puppy's head fits in Dukes mouth it was funny. I was right there to supervise and Duke didn't even move his rear end at. It was good for both of them. Melonie