ADHD Evaluation for Skye

[Patty1231]

Originally Posted by Ilovemypuppy

I may have missed it Patty.. but did your vet do a COMPREHENSIVE thyroid panel on Skye ?

No, she did not, and this medication isn't touching her. What would a CTP show and what treatment would it indicate.

[Ilovemypuppy]

Originally Posted by Patty1231

No, she did not, and this medication isn't touching her. What would a CTP show and what treatment would it indicate.

I am VERY surprised thyroid testing wasn't done on Skye...it would be the first thing I would think that should have been tested..particularly with the behaviour you are describing.

Here are some articles..remember it has to be the COMPLETE Thyroid Panel...not just the T4. Once a year I send a blood sample to Dr. Jean Dodds for an accurate levels test, just to keep an eye on thyroid.


http://www.itsfortheanimals.com/THYROID-ARTICLES.HTM

[Patty1231]

Reading through some of the articles, I don't see a comparison with Skye. Her behavior does not come in "episodes", it's just who she is. But I have to call the Tuesday about this medication not working and I will certainly ask them about the complete thyroid panel. Thanks!

[Patty1231]

Originally Posted by poohbearsmom

I have empathy for Patty, and the frustration and concern she must be feeling with her girl. It's very evident that Patty loves her grrrlie immensely, but in all likelyhood, this is just the way Skye is wired, and either Patty needs to live with it, and work with it, or not.

I agree - and that's probably the way this will pan out. If it is just a matter of stricter discipline for a wired dog (totally the opposite of all my previous experience, limited as it is), then so be it. I'm up for it. Afterall, what the heck else do I have to do? The activity level itself is not what even bothers me, it is the resultant health effective of her being so underweight. If it were not for that, I wouldn't even be consulting a vet on the issue. Wired I can do!

[poohbearsmom]

Originally Posted by Patty1231

I agree - and that's probably the way this will pan out. If it is just a matter of stricter discipline for a wired dog (totally the opposite of all my previous experience, limited as it is), then so be it. I'm up for it. Afterall, what the heck else do I have to do? The activity level itself is not what even bothers me, it is the resultant health effective of her being so underweight. If it were not for that, I wouldn't even be consulting a vet on the issue. Wired I can do!

It's the effect on her weight that makes me wonder if she's hypERthyroid.... very worth checking out.

Good luck!

[Ilovemypuppy]

How is Skye doing Patti ????

[Patty1231]

Sort of an odd thing has happened. I wasn't going to post about it until I've given it more time but, since you asked....

I started to switch Skye over to a vegetarian formula by Natural Balance (for allergies) on Friday and, since then, have noticed an improvement in her behavior. She's still full of energy, don't get me wrong, but she's not as frenzied and will rest easier on the couch when I make her get up and take a break.

I stopped giving her the medication after two days because it wasn't doing anything and is not a build-up type of medication. The vegetarian formula is 18% protein and I've been adding additional carbs, as well. We'll see how the weight goes now. I'm sure if she settles a bit, the weight will come. If not, I will take her in for thyroid testing (already talked to the vet) but I don't want to stress her more unnecessarily (she's very unnerved at the vets).

[Ilovemypuppy]

Thanks for the up-date Patti...hopefully the change in diet will help...I'd still have that full Thyroid Panel done.......would you vet come to your house to do the blood draw ?...lots less stress for Skye.

If she is hyperthyroid...it can be easily brought into balance.

[BostonRott]

It is my understanding that dogs RARELY suffer from hyperthyroidism. Dogs are usually hypo and cats are usually hyper.

[Patty1231]

Originally Posted by BostonRott

It is my understanding that dogs RARELY suffer from hyperthyroidism. Dogs are usually hypo and cats are usually hyper.

This is what research has shown me, as well. But I am taking her in Saturday morning for the blood draw to rule that out. She has been examined by the vet twice now since I got her and is in perfect health, just too skinny. Her coat, eyes, teeth, gums, joints (sans x-ray) - all perfect. I think she just needs less protein, more carbs, and longer walks. She is not sick, just skinny. In addition to the diet change and carb additions, my son is going to be feeding extra calorie-rich treats during the day when he is home between classes and/or at night when he comes in late (he's a 21-year-old college student - different schedule than most humans ). I will report back.

[poohbearsmom]

Originally Posted by BostonRott

It is my understanding that dogs RARELY suffer from hyperthyroidism. Dogs are usually hypo and cats are usually hyper.

Agreed, but I'd still run a full panel, and do any other testing necessary to figure out why no weight gain is possible.

Likely, the behavior is simply her wiring. As suggested in the article, and as I mentioned earlier, training and consistancy are the cures for that.

[hcelsa]

Thought I'd share my experience with a high energy, high metabolizing (or however you spell that) dog for what it's worth.

When Arnie was a young dog (8 weeks to about 3.5) we had a very hard time keeping weight on him. He was non-stop...playing, jumping, pestering me to work with him, and just constantly in motion when not under a stay command (and he got LOTS of practice staying just so he didn't drive us batty). Arnie does everything with gusto, he prefers to throw as much speed and enthusiasm as possible into anything he's doing. He was herding on a regular basis as well, so that burned quiet a bit of fuel on top of the calories he burned just "being Arnie". He was and is a BLAST to work and play with though because he brings SO much energy and enthusiasm into the equation!

I had countless knowledgeable people (not just the hordes of folks that think Rottweilers should be fat...) tell me on a regular basis that he was too thin (knowing I like to keep my dogs nice and lean they thought it was intentional-at that point you could see total rib definition from 10 feet away). I agreed (as did my vet), and we tried many different very high quality kibbles (I could never give him enough to put weight on without causing loose stools), and also ran a thyroid panel just to be sure (everything was completely normal on the full panel per Dr. Dodds). To keep him from looking totally anorexic I'd make batches of satin balls and take them with us when we went hiking, training or just for a walk and he probably ate 2-5 a day on top of his two meals (close to 6 cups of food...any more and he just couldn't digest it). When I switched everyone to raw (he was approx. 20 months at that time) I thought I'd finally be able to keep weight on him, but it was worse! We continued for about a year of two large meals (4-5 pounds of food total each day) plus satin balls or other food during the day, until he was close to 3.5 or 4 and someone suggested adding a big helping of carbs to his raw meals. With the addition of sweet potato, oatmeal (cooked), and acorn squash on a rotation I was finally able to keep weight on him! We still had to watch him carefully because if we had an exceptionally busy week it would show up quickly (those ribs would pop right back out), but he was able to maintain a nice healthy working weight (you can see his last rib, and easily feel his hip points).

He's 6 now, and I've noticed just recently that he'll actually find a dog bed in the house and lie down for 20-30 minutes at a time if nothing is going on (as a youngster he'd be doing good with 2-5 minutes in the same place unless told to stay...and he'd usually find someplace cool rather than a cushy bed). I think as a middle-aged dog his metabolism and energy level have tapered off a bit (he's been able to maintain weight even when fed kibble for a week or two here and there, but he'd still need to add a few pounds to be shown in conformation), and I'll admit...even though it may result in a lower food bill for the dogs it makes me sad to think of him slowing down.

So my two cents would be to enjoy what a FUN girl you've got, and find a way to get extra little meals into her during the day if you're worried about her weight (and I don't disagree with running a thyroid panel just to be sure, but I'd bet it's just who she is ).

[Patty1231]

Thank you so much for that description of Arnie - you just described Skye to a "T"! My efforts do now include adding carbs to her diet. I did start adding raw oatmeal - does it stick better cooked? I plan on starting her in agility in the Spring.

[moondog]

Patty,

I think it does "stick" better cooked. Cooking begins the process of breaking foods down and makes them more digestible (and therefore more available) for the dog.

And....even though the reason for Luna's need for help keeping weight on is completely different than Skye's, the addition of a good portion of carbs was also the answer for her.

[Patty1231]

Okay, now I'm really PO'd! I got a message on my answering machine saying the doctor wants me to keep Skye on the medication for 2-3 weeks to watch for any effect before we do any testing. Of course, the office is closed now - but I called and left a perturbed message and WILL be speaking with them in the morning. I don't understand why they would have a problem with running the test, in any case, unless someone is trying to cover their butt.

It's not like I just have $100 bucks floating around to blow on unnecessary testing. I KNOW that in all likelihood it is not her thyroid but how could I continue with this not knowing I ruled out the possibility?