Ethical Issue: Cancer Treatment Decisions

[2rotties2luv]

Originally Posted by damp

If my dog is diagnosed with a deathly illness, he will be put to sleep the day I get the diagnose and I will say Good Bye My Friend, and I will not prolong his life with just one day!

Thank you, Damp, for validating my post. It's not harsh at all. I've done it twice and I feel comforted with wonderful memories of those two dogs and the knowledge that I didn't force them to suffer for me.

My first dog was a different story. When he was diagnosed with a terminal illness, even though he was very ill, I brought him home and convinced myself that he might get better for a while. I couldn't bear to say goodbye just then. While he was happy to be home, he didn't get better, and after a few weeks when he couldn't get up any more, I realized the time had come. My then-teenaged daughter came with me to the vet's and afterward, through her tears, she said "Mom, WHY did you make him suffer so long?" Well that woke me up and I realzed what I had done - how I had put that poor dog through misery just to give myself some more time with him. I still feel guilt for my selfishness, but I made a promise I would never do that again.

[observer]

Originally Posted by emillinium

"If my dog is diagnosed with a deathly illness, he will be put to sleep the day I get the diagnose and I will say Good Bye My Friend, and I will not prolong his life with just one day!"

thats alittle harsh and un nessarry if your dog is not feeling the disease yet?

Well, unless the diagnosis is made at a routine checkup, then the trip to the vet was presumably made because the dog was "feeling the disease" to some degree. While the argument could be made that putting the dog to sleep could be postponed so long as the dog still had quality of life and dignity, the problem with dogs like Rotties is that they are SO stoic that they bear pain all too well, and have such loyalty to us that they will do what they know pleases us no matter what it costs them. So, it's easy for us to do the selfish thing by keeping them with us a little longer.

Therefore, I can't really argue with damp's opinion. Not sure what I would/will do when the time comes again for me, but hers is a valid approach.

[woward]

One of the hardest tasks we have as caring dog owners is deciding "when it is time." We have always tried to determine when our dog has crossed the line from "living his/her life" to "just living." It's hard not to be a bit selfish and want them around longer but we feel its better to use our God-given intelligence and try to make a rational decision for the benefit of our loyal friends.

It's never an easy decision and it is seldom an obvious one...

Bill

[debbiej]

I too want to offer my sympathy to everyone going through this kind of decision making road. I once had a dog that got cancer. I didn't really know much about cancer in dogs, or how to treat it. So when my vet suggested chemo, I went for it. The chemo didn't make her sick, and she had two surgeries. one before the diagnosis because they thought she had an obstruction, the second to see if the cancer could be removed after chemo. All in all, what made her feel best was the prednisone. I spent a lot of money, and filled our last days together with vet visits and medical proceedures. I loved that dog, I love my dogs now. But I have a different philosophy now. (at least in theory I do..) a dog's life is just so short, big invasive proceedures take away a lot in many ways from that time, and it's true, it is for us, so we can keep our beloved friend longer. but not necessarily kinder to the dog.

[tilerspop]

I am going through this at this time. It has taken me a week just to get to the point where I can rationally discuss this subject. IMO, it is both a question of cost and ethics. The overriding considertion has to be the quality of life of the dog. If the dog is in pain or cannot live life as it is used to, then it is time to do the right thing. If you don't have the financial resources to offer the latest treatments w/o material injury to yourself or your family then it is time. (BTW, there should be no guilt ascribed to the fact that someone may not be able to afford the latest medical treatment either).

It's all a question of time. As dog lovers we all have to know that our beloved animals have a much shorter life span than we do. We all pray against the day when they will leave us, and leave us they will. We can only hope that the dreaded event happens in a manner and form that is easier on us. Often this is not the case. When life takes a wrong turn it is up to us as the reasoning being in the relationship to take care of our friend and insure that they don't suffer.

[KRISSIE]

posted by Mike : We can only hope that the dreaded event happens in a manner and form that is easier on us. Often this is not the case. When life takes a wrong turn it is up to us as the reasoning being in the relationship to take care of our friend and insure that they don't suffer.__________________

Excellent ponit !... I agree . It should not be about our feelings on loosing them but about their quality of life and what is truly in their best interest , no matter how hard the decision is on us , we owe it to them to end their suffering. :(

[pazzo]

Today is exactly 2 yrs I lost Nico to hemangiosarcoma. Needless to say my heart still aches and he left a void in my life that I could never fill. Nico was diagnosed on wednesday and left this world 2 days later. One reason was he was bleeding internally, it was offered to me that there was a "CHANCE" they could stop that bleeding and move on from there. He was in University of Penn.
My heart was beating out of my chest, the tears were too many too ever count, my husband was in shock, I was losing a love that I can never put into words, and they wanted to cut him open to "POSSIBLY" stop the bleeding. No way!
I made the decision to take his life quickly. I wanted him to die with the dignity he was born with, and I NEVER wanted him to KNOW pain for not even ONE second. I could do that for him. and I did. Losing him was the hardest thing I have delt with in my 34 yrs. Thinking he was possibly in pain, hurt worse. Watching him pass was devastating, knowing that I helped him one last time was my only comfort.
No one can tell you what to do, it is a personal decision, but all I can offer is when you love something enough to put thier needs before yours, that's LOVE. I will be praying for your family. I'm sorry that you are being faced with this horrible disease. Stay strong.
Dana

[chivas]

Deep down you know what you need to do, follow that. I really dont think asking people on here their opinions on something so personal is the way to go, there are always going to be people on here who will make you feel bad, who answer too harsh (one of the reasons I dont come to this site much anymore and one of the biggest reasons I dont answer or read certain members postings). Deep down you know what to do, go with it and NEVER NEVER feel that you made the wrong decision - you didnt.

[GenHannibal]

After having two dogs last beyond 13 yrs of age (and died of old age), I had four dogs come down with various forms of cancer. Two are survivors, two are gone. It is never an easy decision, other than getting as much info & statistics as possible regarding recovery. Then, you have to consider your dogs "quality of life" during & after. Of course, you have to consider your finances as well. It can become extremely costly, I know. Unfortunately, no one can give you a hard-core answer, they can only provide you with either comfort or their own experiences. For the most part, there are no right or wrong decisions. My thoughts are with you & your family.

[Nightshade]

This is such a tough choice that there simply cannot be only one right answer -- it has to vary from dog to dog and owner to owner. We were so fortunate to have an ethical vet. He looked my husband in the eye and told him to spend his money on pain killers and euthenasia. We still don't even know the precise name of the cancer, we just knew that it would be fast. We decided to let Vern tell us when he was done with us, and he did. He never lost his dignity or the "light" in his eyes, but one day when we called him to do something he liked, he just looked at us like "ugh -- do I have to?". To us, that meant he was no longer enjoying his life. Armed with the greater knowledge that what he had was terminal, we ended it then, rather than to spend a bunch of time and money for our own sake.

That's our story and it's based on our ethics and our knowledge of our animal. With little Tinkerbell, I don't believe that we'd have handled it the same way as she's not as able to "communicate" with us as Vern was; she's more the stoic "will do whatever you ask until the end" type. We'd probably have had to go with the "put her down after the dx" method with her.

To me, the fact that you love your animal enough to seek input and really think out the decision means that you're doing the very best you can, and this is what your animal wants from you. The odds are also very high that you're doing the right thing under those circumstances. I think it's the owners that get stubborn and crankily make their demands that are making the "wrong" choices.

[apandres]

Our Golden had lymphoma a few years ago. He was put into a "study" program at the oncologists. All dogs were treated with a high dose of chemo to put them in remission and afterwards received the study drug or a placebo. Zack went into remission right away and stayed in remission for 6 months, after which he was ineligible for the study. He was put into a standard chemo treatment and once again went into remission and stayed there another 6 months. I never knew if he was receiving the drug or the placebo (the vet said he didn't know either); however, the vet did say he didn't notice a difference between the study groups.

Zack tolerated all his chemo very well - was never sick and never missed a meal. He received his chemo about once every three or four weeks and I don't recall that it cost thousands of dollars. Zack lived about a year after his initial diagnosis and had a very good quality of life. I would do it again if it ever happens with my Rottie.

[damp]

(Wish I could type this in my first language)
My criteria about treatments and when to put a dog to sleep, was set in stones many years ago. There is nothing to discuss in my home, not even 25 years later. I do realize, that there are other treatments now a day, but I really doubt, if that is in favor of my dog. I do know it is a benefit to the vet’s bank account and an extension of life and respite of my broken heart.
I my self was randomly selected to medical research regarding uterus cancer, but I can say NO when/ if I do not want or feel comfortable with an experiment. (I am out of this project, since they didn’t found what they looked for LOL) My dog can’t say yes or no!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(However, I have donated my dead body for donations and medical experiments, and so hubby)
Every time I have put a dog to sleep, I told my vet, if you and your students can use him for educations, I know he would be proud to serve this last time. He has served me, now he is yours, IF you treat him with respect and dignity.
I trust my vet and out of the four dogs, I have put to sleep, only one is burried in the backyard. The three other seved their breed and their canine fellows without pain and stress!

[woward]

Our boy, Bob, died today, less than three weeks after we discovered his cancer. He had a pretty good, albeit short, time since his diagnosis. He got to go to one last show (our local Rottweiler specialty) and say goodbye to all his friends. He went to the mountains, did some hiking and got to play in the snow one last time. He never seemed to suffer and had a good appetite all the way through, a pretty sure sign that a Rottie is still enjoying life ... This morning he let us know it was time.

Thanks to you all for your kind words, advice and support.

Bill

[Snooze]

Bill,
I lost my best buddy to lymphoma in July, also 3 wks after the diagnosis. I am so sorry for your loss. I haven't any magic words or anything profound to share other than to say I have felt what you feel today. The only thing that made me feel a little better was that my boy and probably yours had wonderful lives and made ours better as well.

Again, I am so very sorry,
Sue

[Mochasmom]

Bill,
We lost Mocha in September about 3 weeks after her diagnosis as well.

I am so sorry for your loss, so very sorry.

Keri