Supplement advice if possible please

[JaniceH]

Hi,

Teazle has mild Elbow Dysplasia. Whilst out walking she is fine, energetic and shows no signs of lameness. However, after rest she is stiff albeit only for a few seconds.

She is currently on a maintenance level of Glucosomine & Chondroitin (claimed to be the best formula available for dogs).

However, I have also been giving her 1000mg of cod liver oil to help her joints. The cod liver oil worked so well with my old cross breed dog many years ago as she had arthritis and found it quite painful sometimes to get up. However once I gave her this she lived on to 17 years old, the last 4 years being pain free. I don't know whether it is working for Teazle, but I just wondered if anyone could recommend anything better to help her with this stiffness. I know she is only stiff for a moment or two, but if I can relieve this in any way I want to.

I have recently been diagnosed with quite bad osteo-arthritis in my knee so I am feeling pretty fed up at the moment since my only hobby is walking with Teazle. The daft thing is I am the one that is limping, in pain and I just get on with it, whereas I can't stand it if I see Teazle showing stiffness even if it is only for a moment or two.

[Patty1231]

You could add MSM and at least 1,000 mg. Ester-C daily.

[JaniceH]

Thanks Patty,

How much MSM would you recommend on a daily basis and is it safe to use the human form or will it have to be specifically designed for dogs ?

Also what is Ester-C ?

[Patty1231]

Ester-C is the most absorbable form of Vitamin C. I get mine from Puritans Pride - great prices online. The MSM I think is 500 mg. but you can buy a Gluc/Chon formula with it already in it. I have always bought human-grade supplements for my dogs because when you have a dog the size of a rottie the stuff made for dogs is ridiculously expensive. Rocco had lax hips as a puppy and most likely has some level of imperfection there but nothing that stops him from doing anything (his right back leg turns inward when he walks real low and the vet said it would be a good idea to supplement - no other signs of physical problems or restrictions). I keep him on 1,000 mg. Ester-C and Cosamin DM (human form of Cosequin) - one capsule each daily which I open and mix into his food.

This is just what I do - it works for us and it is with vet approval/recommendation.

[LynnS]

I give Bella Ester C as well (a form of vit c you can get in most major supermarkets or at a health food store) and liquid Gluc/Chond......

We also do adequan shots...not necessary but Bella has had joint swelling and pain...

[groupieindenial]

I remember reading on here not to use cod liver oil, cant remember exactly why. I guess using anything excreted from "liver" is not desired, the liver is the filter trapping all kinds of toxins. (just my guess). WOuldn't wild salmon oil high in DHA be better? I'm not sure how much this helps with joints, but giving EFA's is always good, especially omega 3's, so...

If you want therapeutic effects of the glucosamine/chondroitin you should be supplementing on top of the min mantenance amount the dog is already getting. That may make all the difference in the world. Chondroitin lubricates the joint, and the glucosamine repairs joint tissue.

Ester-C is a much more soluble vitamin c. You want the one with bioflavanoids (helps even more with the nutrient absorption). Ester C promote cell regeneration.

I would ease your dog into increasing the ester-c eventually to maybe 1500mg-2000mg/day. Start off low, with 500-600mg per day, and gradually increase it so your dog can tolerate it.(too much too soon makes for runny stools i think). I would also increase the glucosamine/chondroitin to a therepuetic level. So if the food she's eating has it, supplement on top of this. If your giving supplements increase it by like 25%. I would also try rubbing the gel/ointment Traumeel on her joints just before your walks (you too for that matter!).

[JaniceH]

Thank you.

I will get some MSM & the Ester-C as you all have suggested.

I will also increase the Glucosomine/Chondroitin supplement to a therapeutic level.

I don't know if we can get Traumeel in the UK. I assume it is an anti-inflammatory, but I will look into it.

The vet originally told me to give her metacam if she went lame, but since it is just a stiffness for a short period after rest, then I would rather hold off from this.

The cod liver oil I use does have Omega 3 in it I think. Sorry if I sound a bit thick but what is a EFA ?

[groupieindenial]

You should,Traumeel is a German product, been around forever. Its available in nauturopathic pharmacies, and vitamin stores.

Sorry, EFA - Essential Fatty Acids, which include Omega's 3,6, & 9. All EFA's are good, but you get lots of 6,9 from many foods. Omega 3 is really primarily found in fish oil.

[JaniceH]

Thanks Sabrina. I will now go and do some shopping !!

[2rotties2luv]

Janice, those same supplements may help your own osteoarthritis too! I have two rotties, one with arthritis and stiffness of old age, the other one with moderate hip dysplasia. I give my rotties the following suplements daily:
glucosamin/chondroitin/MSM
Ester-C
Salmon oil
Traumeel liquid

I started to take the same supplements after I saw how well my dogs were doing, and my osteoarthritis is much better! It took several months, and the improvement was very gradual for me, but my knees, hands and TMJ are lots better!

[groupieindenial]

Yeah, traumeel comes in liquid, gel, tablets. I was told the liquid is the best, but Vegas HATED taking it cuz it tastes like alcohol. Im not sure how good the ointment kind works.

My old neighbor swears by that stuff called Lakota for her arthritis, just thought I'd throw that at ya.

[JaniceH]

Thank you for the extra info.

I'm going to swop the cod liver oil for salmon oil and try the traumeel liquid.

I already am taking the glucosomine/chondroitin/MSM as a complete supplement for myself. I tried the cod liver oil but just couldn't swallow the stuff/capsules so gave up on that. I will watch how Teazle does and may try the traumeel then. I will buy the smallest possible amount at first to see if she will take it in her food. She already has problems accepting the Glucosomine tablets, even crushed. There is sometimes a little left which I have to then hide with peanut butter. However, she gobbles up the cod liver oil capsule with her food no problem.

Thanks again all of you. I am glad my insurance company pays for Teazle's current glucosomine tablets, especially now I am increasing the dose...hmmm, I wonder if they will pay for the rest...well I can dream !!!!

[2rotties2luv]

My dogs don't even notice the Traumeel liquid I put on their food. The dosage is only 10 drops, and it doesn't have much of a taste. I mix mine with a little bit of water and let it sit under my tongue for a few moments before swallowing. Don't forget the Ester-C as well!

[groupieindenial]

Yeah, I was told not to mix it with anything, if possible let it sit on the tongue. So I administered it with the baby syringe style thing, and the UCK faces he'd make, totally fought me. So if its not good to dilute it, then why put it in food? Thats why I suggested the ointment Traumeel. What about the tablets?

[2rotties2luv]

The tablets have a lactose base as a binding agent. Many dogs and humans are lactose intolerant and will get a digestive upset from the lactose.

The package insert that comes with the liquid I purchase says it's OK to dilute the drops in water. I add the 10 drops to about a half teaspoon of water because I don't like the taste of the alcohol. I believe my dogs do get the benefit of Traumeel when it is put on their food.

I use the Traumeel ointment as well on occaision, but feel that by using both forms you are attacking the problem both internally and externally at the same time and there is a better result. I don't use the Traumeel ointment on my dogs as the areas where it would be needed are too hairy and they would lick it off.