9 YO Not Eating: Advice . . . or support . . .

[attitude]

My 9 year old beautiful Attie is not eating and very lethargic. This has been a gradual progression since March. I first noticed that she was eating her dry food with less enthusiasm and more "mouthy" when eating. Later I started to notice she was less energetic and becoming that more quickly than what I would think of as normal aging process. Of course, this was attributed by all as getting older and (she had a pad injury) feeling "sorry" for herself--even on my first vet visit in March. In April, a blood work-up, exam, urinalysis were done. Blood work-up flagged low thyroid function, so thyroid was rechecked and confirmed low. She was put on thyroid replacement and told to be rechecked in 60 days.

Medical history: In late 2003, Attie was diagnosed with Horner's Syndrome. I was very concerned and 3 months later went to another vet for a second opinion. Both vets told me that this was a result of some unknown neurological damage (illness or injury), it may or may not go away on it's own, but if it were a result of tumors or serious illness that we would be seeing some other clinical signs at this point. The appearance of Att's face has stayed since that time. Other than the facial damage, Att was the picture of health certainly not looking her age.

In the past 60 days while waiting to retest thyroid, she continued to eat more irregularly and less, becoming more lethargic. During this time we were back to the vet twice for checks and a chest x-ray which was fine. Physical exams were all normal for her age. (There are 3 vets at this hospital and all have been consulted.)

Results just came back and thyroid levels are now normal. The vet is saying he just doesn't know--that the thyroid problem is secondary to something else. They are telling me that she does have arthritis as her rear knees are thick--although I have never really noticed any obvious movement problems. They have continued her thyroid replacement meds and have prescribed rimydal which I'm not sure is for any general pain or if they think arthritis is affecting her. The only thing they say they would do next is a stomach x-ray but do not seem to be pushing that.

Att's interest in food continues to decline--the last couple days she will hardly take anything. Her activity level is low and I do notice more panting that I think is normal. Heat and humidity levels are very high here right now, so I do know how much that attributes. She is drinking. She certainly is certainly is not invalid yet--two days ago chased a cat to the barn (at a trot), and ran a little yeserday; but her normal wandering is not there. I know this can not continue.

I am so frustrated in the wait for the thyroid treatment which I lost confidence in as her appetite continued to decrease. Maybe her vet was being overly optimistic about the thyroid (and arthritis) and I'm am just not hearing what they are trying to tell me?????????????? They did say that Att being a heavily muscled dog and previously being 5-10# overweight, could go quite a while without eating!*!*!*!

I am beside myself with her declining condition and not knowing. Funds are limited. But if I thought there was any help for her, I would find a way. However, I (have to remind myself) to be relunctant to put her through a very serious surgery without some hopeful assurance of a positive outcome. I am in Iowa; there is a university teaching hospital here.

I have been lurking on this board since I found you all 3 months ago when this began. I know there is some experience and expertise here. At this point, other than my own peace of mind, do I go for another opinion. And, if not, . . . how can I make her more comfortable.

Hoping for responses; I know this is long, but I need some level-heads--mine is not right now.

[alexav]

Sorry your girl isn't well.
I would try another opinion if it was my dog, unless I completely trusted the Vet.
Although I believe pain needs to be treated, Rimadyl is pretty dangerous stuff for some dogs. Look into some safer alternatives. It may be that the Rimadyl is irritating her stomach and decreasing her appetite.

Good luck to both of you...please keep us posted on her progress.

[attitude]

I don't think it could be the Rimadyl upsetting her stomach--she's only took it for one week on May 3 (Carprofen Chewables which an internet search told me was Rimadyl). Yesterday when we received the thyroid test results I asked what I could do for her and they prescribed 1 month's rimadyl again--I have not yet given it to her. I was aware there were some problems with Rimadyl, but was not aware there were comperable alternatives to ask for. They basically said it was like Advil--and that I had nothing to lose.

[fbkeays]

Don't want to scare you, but I will anyway. As I read this, I was thinking of cancer. My Misty had lymphoma. Her syptoms were slowing down (acting "old" at age 7) and not eating as much and losing weight. I called the vet in for a complete exam and all blood work came back as normal. One lymph node was slightly off, but not swollen. A month later a biopsy confirmed lymphoma.
Lymphoma can be sneaky. It can be intestinal only so the surface lymph nodes may not be swollen. I would suggest that her lymph nodes be checked, including the internal ones if possible (might be visable on x-rays).
My thoughts are with you.

[JeanT]

Rimadyl can kill in a day or a week or a month. Unless liver function tests (a blood exam) have been taken before and during the treatment and are remaining normal, I would stop the Rimadyl immediately and have LFS performed. There will be no damage from stopping the Rimadyl. If the Rimadyl is causing liver damage (what you describe is consistent with that but also many other problems), the liver can sometimes repair itself. The only "treatment" is to stop the Rimadyl. My dog died from Rimadyl.

[luv2beanurse]

I am so sorry to hear about your dog...I understand about having a sick dog..the vets confused..and having limited funds. I would go for a second opinion at the teaching hospital. There may be something that the other vets have missed. Also, there are specialists there that have alot more expertise. Usually these hospitals have payment plans that they can set up for people to help aid in paying for care.. I would call them ahead of time and discuss this or email them. Good luck to you and your doggie. Hope things start going better and your doggie starts eating. Keep us updated please and let us know how things are going or if you just need a shoulder to lean on. You, both, will be in my prayers!

[Judi W]

I know this might sound very simplistic, but have you had a good examination of her mouth done to eliminate the possibility of dental problems, mouth tumors or something like that which would discourage eating?

[attitude]

Attie and I are off for an 8-hour "car ride" to the university vet hospital tomorrow AM.

Although I'm very apprehensive, we're going. Wish me clarity and good judgement.

I've questioned teeth and mouth; guess the reason I have not pushed that further their rationale (tumor?) for the thyroid involvement.

Thank you all.

[luv2beanurse]

I am glad you are going for a second opinion. Good luck!! I will be thinking about you two tomorrow. Please keep us updated! I am not sure what time you are leaving (or if you have it on hand), but it might be helpful to bring a copy of the medical record with you to the veterinary specialty hospital. If you don't have it and are unable to obtain it, your vet office should be able to fax her medical record to the specialty hospital. Again, good luck!

[sandyz]

I wish you the best of luck and will have you in my thoughts and prayers.

[Judi W]

I suggest the careful mouth exam because sometimes people get so involved looking for subtle hidden causes that they neglect to be thorough with the more obvious. Please do this yourself if only to make sure you aren't going further afield than necessary. Examine each tooth and every inch of gum and when you take her in, make sure they do a good look at the throat as well.

[pazzo]

Wishing you guys luck and prayers as we are thinking of you today, please keep us posted.

[attitude]

She has a large abdominal mass--large enough it was pushing her stomach to one side, and yes, causing discomfort. More blood work and ultra sound today. They are telling me, of course, at her age cancer is possibility.

Anyone had experience with this?

[GMCTurbo]

The very first Rottie I lost had abdominal cancer which went undiagnosed until exploratory surgery showed how far it had spread (and we didn't wake her up from the anaesthetic) :-(

I've been torn over the years after losing several dogs on whether to try everything non-invasive first before exploratory surgery (especially for weakened dogs) but I'm slowly coming around to my vet's old-school opinion which is you never really know what you're dealing with until you see what's going on inside with your eyes.

I just lost Orca this past weekend so I can't bear to write too much about him, but in Feb I spent over $1k on non-invasive diagnostics...none of which properly diagnosed an intestinal blockage. And one ultrasound diagnosis told me cancer and the tech told me he likely wouldn't last very long. This was at a weekend emergency clinic, so after fretting all Sunday, I took him back to my regular vet and we opened him up and found the blockage right away and breathed a sigh of relief.

So the moral of my experience at least is that fancy diagnostics can only do so much. Ultimately, a biopsy, visual observation of whether anything has spread to lymph nodes and surrounding tissue, and perhaps attempted removal of the mass can only really be done with exploratory surgery. Ultrasound can spot and measure lymph nodes, but then you're losing another set of hours or days and surgery would likely still be required to see if it was operable. So there's the time passage issue too while doing non-invasive.

I guess one other piece of advice is to say your goodbyes before exploratory surgery, because depending what you might find, it may be better to not wake her up :-( I unfortunately was not able to do this with my first Rott and that really messed me up emotionally.

Best of luck.

[attitude]

I--and Attie--want to thank you all for your kindness in responding to this post.

My beautiful, beloved Attie was diagnosed with a very agressive carcinoma of the liver. Her days/hours will be coming to closure soon.

We did go as far as having an ultra-sound guided needle biopsy and I was very pleased with the care at our state teaching hospital. I also am glad and feel more at peace having pursued a diagnosis. Of course, I was certainly hoping for another outcome; and something that could contribute some knowledge/learning to this post and group. That was not to be. But what I have very much seen through my beautiful girl (who was always cute, friendly, silly) is the abilty to go through these days with an unbelievable beauty, strength, and grace.

As I type through the tears in my eyes, I realize that I may not have the courage to visit the group again in the near future. So replies are not necessary; I know that all too many of you have been where I am at now and understand. Thank you.