any one have any info on heart murmur, entropion?

[Dara Ann]

hello,I have a 8 week old rotti named Kayla.today was our firsty visit to the vet and it did not go well.2 things wrong with my puppy.1st thing she has a eye problem called bilateral entropion the second and more trobling is grade 4/6 holosytolic heart murmur.I've been searching for info,but can't seem to find what I'm looking for.If any one has any info. Please share it .Thanks

[Judi W]

Contact your breeder immediately and discuss these findings. Most puppies have a 48 hour period for you to check health and can return immediately if so desired.

The eyes can be surgically repaired. A dicky heart cannot.

[BostonRott]

A grade 4 murmur is a bad thing and will probably significantly shorten the life of your dog, as well as severely limit activity. I can't figure out what the first word is that you wrote "holosystolic" ....... I'm not faulting your spelling, just saying that it seems to be incorrectly spelled and I can't figure out what word you're really intending.

I would return this puppy to the breeder ASAP, demand a full refund and not take another dog out of ANY of this breeder's lines.

[BostonRott]

Ok, searching on "holosystolic murmur dog", I found some info.....none of it good.

Holosystolic murmurs are often associated with mitral valve regurgitation (blood flowing backwards through the mitral valve of the heart), or with a ventricular septum defect (hole in the wall between the right and left ventricles of the heart).

This link has some info, but may be a bit technical: http://www.gcvs.com/imaging/ultrasou...ularabnorm.htm

This link is about the venricular septal defect:
http://www.upei.ca/~cidd/Diseases/ca...ptaldefect.htm

[Dara Ann]

Thank you all so much for replying.I have contacted the breeder,she agreed to a full refund or a new pup.I also asked if these conditions ran in her dogs.They eye problem runs in the father,as far as the murmur she has no history.The murmur is most likely a birth defect, she said sometimes happens with a big litter(14 pups 1 dyed).I am going to have Kayla checked at another vet see what happens.I will keep you posted. Again thank you,it means alot during this difficult time.

[frontierrots]

I really have to say that this is inexcusabe. The breeder's vet should have found BOTH conditions at the puppy health certificate exam before the pups were sold. Even if your state does not require health certificates before selling a pup, it is just good practice to do one for the knowledge they can ring (pups are checked for parasites, health conditions etc..)

And if entropion runs in the sire's line then I surely hope the sire himself was not affected, because that would be extremely unethical to breed a dog with that (or any medical) condition even if it was repaired

[brunie's mom]

PLease, please tell us this pup is not from Kimbertal Kennels??

As far as your breeder saying that it is a birth defect....what kind of health certifications have been done on the sire and dam? Did they have their hearts certified by a cardiologist before these dog were bred??

Also if the breeder knows that the eye problems run in the males side...shame on her. It's a painful condition, that can be corrected with surgery...but not something puppy buyers should have to deal with. This condition is often found in BYB dogs...many come into rescue with it.

Honestly.....I know it's hard...but I would get my money back and RUN from this breeder....you will have nothing but heartbreak in the future.

Gina

[BostonRott]

From the reading I did, these defects are not only congenital, but also heritable. I would NOT take another puppy from this breeder. I know that's really hard b/c a new puppy is VERY exciting.

Entropian must be fixed surgically, so for her to know that it runs in the sire's lines and breed him anyway is not a good thing.

As to the heart, obviously your puppy is not the only one affected. A grade 4 out of 6 murmur is almost as bad as it gets. Assume the entire litter is affected and that the parents both throw it.

If this kennel's name starts with K, know that they are a puppy mill who is world known for producing dogs with major health issues, including heart problems, bad hips and as you've seen, eye problems.

To sell such a puppy is, as Diane said, ABSOLUTELY inexcusable. These conditions should have been found before the puppy was sold to you. Obviously they were not health checked and that in itself is very telling of the ethics (or lack thereof) of the "breeder."

PLEASE save yourself future heartache and just get your money back. Don't take another puppy from this litter or from this breeder (assume that ALL of their stock is untested and probably affected).

There are plenty of breeders out there who have healthy litters available or planned.

[Anne]

I agree with Boston Rott and Brunie's Mom. Get your money back and go to a breeder who is ethical and responsible. I wonder how many other pups in the litter have health problems.

How long have you had this little 8 week old pup. I'm thinking that this breeder may have had let pup leave the litter earlier than 8 weeks of age.

Rottie puppies are adorable and I'm sure you love her and are very upset at all this.

The prognosis for this puppy is not good and you will love and bond to another healthy puppy just as you have done with this poor little pupper.

[Dara Ann]

thanks for all the support.I talked to the breeder agian she told to to bring the pup back,I told that I 'm going to keep her and I do want my money back to help pay for some off her medical expences.I don't feel that Kayla would get the same kind off love and care that she receives now.I know in the long run I am setting myself up for heart break but,I see no sence in sending her to a breeder who will have no use for her,because she can not be bred.All I can do is keep caring for her and love her. I have to give her eye medication and drops 6 times a day,if any one has any tricks that could make this time easier,I'm open for suggestions.Right know I just tell her its time for her medicine and give her a treat when shes done.Okay now to answer some of your questions.No Kayla did not come from Kimberal kennel.As far as testing the breeder said her dogs had regular check-ups and never any problems.I did get the name off her vet and called them trying to get some information but could not get any,I didn't expect too but it was worth a try. The breeder has my vets number but hasn't called yet.I am going see another Vet on Tuesday.I willl keep you updated.Once again thank you all for your support. Dara

[Judi W]

While all this altruism sounds great, you must get your entire purchase price back and immediately or return the pup. If you do not, you simply give this breeder reasons to continue doing business in this fashion. That means you drive over there today and ask for the money without delay. Most contracts and state laws give you 48 hours for this.

If they have to return money, they will rethink continuing to produce puppies with these problems (and trust me this is not the first pup like this, you were just smart enough to go to the vet right away). I am sure they indicated to you that they had no use for the pup thus encouraging you to say you'd keep it.

[Judi W]

PS
While you might be financially in a position where this is fine, many families are not and will be devistated by the investment as well as the medical care and the heart break when their puppy for which they had great hopes as being a companion to their family drops dead after considerable investment. Breeders such as this must be made responsible or they are simply encouraged to continue. These are not only the lives of the poor puppies produced but families defrauded.

[Dara Ann]

what would you do in my position? How do you give some thing so helpless back to someone who doesn't care.who is probally going to resent the pup.It is a very hard decision to make.

[Judi W]

What I recommended. Drive over immediately and get the money in my hand. By not doing so you facilitate in their continuing to defraud people and also in producing puppies with nothing more than a short and suffering life.

[frontierrots]

If you truely want to keep the pup (which will need eyelid surgery at some point if she can take the anesthesia with her heart) then don't take the pup back. Drive over their with a spouse or friend and get the purchase price back and have them sign a note saying that they gave it back and why. Take your vets diagnosis sheet if you have one as well