Baker (inlaws dog) has Lyme Disease

[RottiMomCT]

OK, after a rotten fight with Baron a few weeks ago, we take Baker (inlaws 10ish yr old male rottie) to the vet...idiot inlaws wanted him to see the vet for a persistent limp that moved from limb to limb over the past 3 weeks before the fight...weren't concerned about the fight, although when vet shaved neck he found large punctures from fight...so limp became secondary problem...

Baker had surgery to repair damage from dog fight, is sent home the following day with Rimadyl, Cephalexin and we put him on Glucosamine for his joints. Doc forgets Lyme test....gets test for Lyme the following week (positive) and is put on Doxycycline (taken off Cephalexin) for 3 weeks (last day of Doxy was last weekend I believe). At the vet he was also given his annual vaccines (rabies, etc...)...

In the week after the fight (before Lyme diagnosis), Baker lost weight, and he was lethargic, off his food (NOT normal for him) and didn't even greet anyone with his usual WOOF! when we got home (normally he has to know where MIL is and will bark and carry on if he is inside and she is outside and he can hear her - very attached to her). Weight loss, at least to me, continued, even though they upped his food intake, and added canned food to tempt him to eat...

Today, off to the vet again (because I kept bugging them and they finally gave in!!!). Baker had a temp of 104 and apprently for the past TWO WEEKS has has pain in his back end, which nobody thought was an issue since they knew the Lyme would cause joint pain, and they figured the Glucosamine & Doxy would take care of it and never thought to ask about it...WRONG.

Vet is doing blood work, xrays and a whole host of other stuff...I am thinking he had Lyme for the whole winter and just started showing signs of it...which means the dog has been positive for 6 months!! Of course, would I LOVE to guilt the inlaws and say "I TOLD YOU TO BRING HIM TO THE VET IN NOVEMBER/DECEMBER when he was DUE for an annual exam....? Yes, I would, but what is done is done...can't go back...besides, Doug already told them that, and he's their son so they'll listen to him (and thats a WHOLE nuther thread <LOL>!)

I have looked online for Lyme info and what it does when undiagnosed...looking for non medical info - info from people who have had Lyme positive dogs that went undiagnosed for a period of time...

Thanks everyone!! Paws crossed for the old man please...

[Brooke&Ryan]

Hi Anne---

As you probably know, Julius had Lyme. We think that Julius had Lyme Disease for at least four months without us knowing...possibly longer.... He had a limp in his back leg & we did x-rays & everything & the vet thought it was just a soft tissue injury. Then...the limp came back a couple of months later & we finally got the titer done & he was positive for Lyme. He really looked like he just wanted to be left alone. He didn't want to be touched, growling when you got near his leg that was swollen (TOTALLY not like Julius) & you could just tell he felt like crap.

The vet put him on 60 days of Doxy & we gave him Rimadyl for a few days until the swelling went down & he had some light back in his eyes. It took about two days until he was basically back to his old self again & the limp has never come back...thank god. We were a bit worried that he would be lethargic after having Lyme. That somehow it had taken a toll on him...but it hasn't that we can see. He's still the energetic boy that we used to have...execept now he's always wearing his Preventic collar.

This website: (http://www.workingdogs.com/doc0043.htm) has a section about Lyme. If undiagonosed for awhile it can cause:

Lyme disease can be a multi-systemic illness, with signs that may include fever, swollen lymph nodes, lameness, loss of appetite, heart disease, inflamed joints, and kidney disease. Disorders of the nervous system, while uncommon, may occur as well.

But in all of my research, & believe me I did a lot when we found out about Lyme in Julius, Kidney Disease was the biggest thing that they mentioned when Lyme goes undiagnosed & un-treated. Here's hoping that Baker will be back to normal soon. It's no fun seeing them this way.

I would be worried about him still having joint pain for two weeks though. The vet told us once meds were given that we should see a huuuuge turnaround in Julius in two days or so if it truly was Lyme. We started giving the Rimadyl & Doxy before we found out if he truly had Lyme or not because the test results took two weeks to get in & we didn't want to wait that long if he did have Lyme.

Sorry, I'm rambling on. I hope this is kinda sorta what you wanted to hear....


Brooke

[Judi W]

It is not at all unusual for Lyme to undiagnosed and since he was not showing any symptoms it would not have been checked at his annual exam so why fault them for the possibility that it was there earlier? I don't think the IL's were wrong to be more concerned about the reoccuring limp than the fight, because injuries from the fight have a "known" cause, but the limp did not. The vet might be culpable for not doing enough diagnosis during the visit and concentrating on the abcesses and for not cautioning them to return if they did not see prompt improvement, but they trusted his medication instructions. I know you think they are dolts about many things but in this case, I would cut them some slack as this is a vet problem. They can hardly be faulted for not taking him in for a lyme test when there were no symptoms. Many a puncture wound goes undetected until it abcesses and the limp should not have been considered "secondary" because of a known cause abcess. Again, that is a medical problem (vet) not owner disregard.

[RottiMomCT]

Brooke - thank you for the link...I'll call the vet tomorrow to find out what he's looking for and see if I can offer and insight since I was checking onhim daily becuase if they could not get him up to go out for potty and breakfast in the morning, they let him be...and left me a note to please try to get him up...which I did...I got him up.

Judi - It WAS the inlaws disregard as he had been limping for about two-three weeks prior to the fight and didn't think anything of it except to ask me about it. My response was to take him to the vet, which they didn't do - in fact, after the fight they weren't even going to take him to the vet as it appeared he was OK, except for the few punctures we could see (and we could only see the small ones)....

Doug and I took him to the vet because I didn't want to see him suffering anymore and I quite frankly got tired of listening to my MIL whining about it. My mother in law even asked me if *I* thought he should see the vet that day!! I told her he wasn't MY dog and it was HER decision, and if SHE thought he should go I would take him because of her 'busy schedule' that day - she said she didn't have TIME to take him!!!

When we asked the vet about the limping at the time, he said he would do the Lyme test but admitted he forgot to do it as he really wanted to concentrate on the fresh wounds from the fight - baker was at the vet and treatment began less than 90 minutes after the fight. They were'nt abcesses - they were fresh wounds...

Please trust me when I say they do not see the dogs the same way that we do...to them, they are 'just dogs' and getting medical care for them is not a priority when something is not quite right...

When Ben or Baron inevitably get in my way, they are told 'excuse me' and they move, although I keep walking and they get out of the way anyways. If Baker is in the way upstairs, he is told to get the "F" out of the "F-in" way you "F-in' pain in the a** dog" - and that is a direct quote...

They had found alot of ticks on Baker over the summer and had even noted on a card they got from the vet reminding him he was due to get a Lyme test...

I'm sorry, but a dog bleeding from the ear and several facial and neck wounds needs a VET...not someone who questions the need for a vet. If Ben or Baronhad been limping on & off for over 3 weeks on different legs, I'd certainly have had them to the vet!!

They just don't see the dogs as needing the same prompt care as people when things rapidly change...although they will put off getting medical treatment for themselves so I'm not suprised they do it for the dogs...

[Judy Chrusch]

Well Anne this sounds all too familar and I am so sorry to hear about Baker , unfortunately it can do undiagnosed and sometimes you have no clue when they even contacted it since it can lie dormant for a VERY long time. Czar was MISdiagnosed and we won't go their bc I'm still angry about it but bottom line is depending on how long Baker had it, he could already have kidney damage . It sounds like they did everything right by putting him on doxy and doing the bloodwork, that's all they can do right now but his age is also against him as far as fighting the disease. I can't tell you how many dogs die each year from this awful disease and most people don't have a clue how bad it really is depending on the area you live in. It just so happens that it's REAL bad here where I live and SEVERAL have lost their lives including a rottie which was used for police work and he was diagnosed quickly but left him very arthritic and unable to do his job so he had to be put down and there are tons of others but wait and see what the tests show and go from their, maybe he just needs another round of doxy.

I am so sorry to hear about what you and your inlaws are going through, I'm sorry I can't be of more help. You know what I went through and unless you've been through it, you can't even imagine it. It's a horrible disease and our dogs should not be dieing from it .

I send my best wishes to you and your family, please keep us posted Anne. Hugs to you!!

Judy

[Judi W]

Anne, OK I guess I understand, however I still place a responsibility on the vet care.
I know that you are often voicing frustration over the dog care. You and your husband should perhaps reconsider the house sharing. I can't imagine living every day sharing a home with people I consider irresponsible and dolts and it can't be too nice for them either. Doesn't seem to be a peaceful way to live and 3 male dogs in the same home certainly presents a constant possibility of another dangerous encounter. I know you are often upset and do view things totally differently than they do but it sure doesn't appear to be a very comfortable way to live.

[Judy Chrusch]

Originally Posted by RottiMomCT

Brooke - thank you for the link...I'll call the vet tomorrow to find out what he's looking for and see if I can offer and insight since I was checking onhim daily becuase if they could not get him up to go out for potty and breakfast in the morning, they let him be...and left me a note to please try to get him up...which I did...I got him up.

Judi - It WAS the inlaws disregard as he had been limping for about two-three weeks prior to the fight and didn't think anything of it except to ask me about it. My response was to take him to the vet, which they didn't do - in fact, after the fight they weren't even going to take him to the vet as it appeared he was OK, except for the few punctures we could see (and we could only see the small ones)....

Doug and I took him to the vet because I didn't want to see him suffering anymore and I quite frankly got tired of listening to my MIL whining about it. My mother in law even asked me if *I* thought he should see the vet that day!! I told her he wasn't MY dog and it was HER decision, and if SHE thought he should go I would take him because of her 'busy schedule' that day - she said she didn't have TIME to take him!!!

When we asked the vet about the limping at the time, he said he would do the Lyme test but admitted he forgot to do it as he really wanted to concentrate on the fresh wounds from the fight - baker was at the vet and treatment began less than 90 minutes after the fight. They were'nt abcesses - they were fresh wounds...

Please trust me when I say they do not see the dogs the same way that we do...to them, they are 'just dogs' and getting medical care for them is not a priority when something is not quite right...

When Ben or Baron inevitably get in my way, they are told 'excuse me' and they move, although I keep walking and they get out of the way anyways. If Baker is in the way upstairs, he is told to get the "F" out of the "F-in" way you "F-in' pain in the a** dog" - and that is a direct quote...

They had found alot of ticks on Baker over the summer and had even noted on a card they got from the vet reminding him he was due to get a Lyme test...

I'm sorry, but a dog bleeding from the ear and several facial and neck wounds needs a VET...not someone who questions the need for a vet. If Ben or Baronhad been limping on & off for over 3 weeks on different legs, I'd certainly have had them to the vet!!

They just don't see the dogs as needing the same prompt care as people when things rapidly change...although they will put off getting medical treatment for themselves so I'm not suprised they do it for the dogs...

Anne we must have been typing at the same time. This sickens me and makes me angry bc it is our responsibility to get our pets medical care when they need it. This must be so difficult for you bc you're in the middle, what does hubby say?

Well all I can say now is I hope and pray this poor dog doesn't suffer anymore.
Thank you for taking the time to take that poor boy to the vets but if your inlaws can't take responsibility for the care of their own pets then they shouldn't have them at all, nor does someone like that even deserve them.

Judy

[RottiMomCT]

My big problem with getting out of here is finances...we're trying to save to get our own place but its slow going...hopefully by next year.

As for the dog, just this morning my MIL said I was paranoid about the health of my own dogs. I kinda laughed and said I'd rather pay $50 for a vet visit for him to tell me the dog has a minor problem than wait until he's really sick and pay $500...and I bet it woulda been cheaper for Baker had they brought him two weeks ago when they first noticed he was not getting better.

My peeve with this particular vet (who my inlaws adore for some odd reason) is that he never gave anyone any clue as to what the meds given would do to the dog - tummy upset, lethargy, runny poop, etc...so they assumed his problems were due to the meds and just waited until they were gone. Had they asked about the meds for treating Lyme, they'd have seen his reaction was not normal. He's lucky I asked about continuing to give the Cephalexn when he was given the doxy - otherwise I'm certain they'd have kept giving him all of the stuff prescribed!

That's one of the main reasons I stopped taking my dogs there...I had to remember to ASK him about side effects of anything he gave me for the dogs. The vet my boys see now is wonderful - gives me a printout of information about meds given and tells me to call ASAP if anything pops up and he will call you back himself within less than 24 hours.

Ben sees the vet twice a year - once for annual exam/needed vaccinations and again when he gets a checkup for his TDI certification. I know I don't have to bring him for the TDI paperwork but I only pay $20 for the office visit and I get peace of mind.

[RottiMomCT]

It seems he has a mass in his abdomen . While two days of IV fluids and a good strong dose of antibiotics have seemed to help him out, the vet said there is no way to guarantee. The undiagnosed Lyme did affect his kidneys (I'm taking a sample to work when I get back from the CRC event to see what his levels are). The vet said he could, and probably would, start to go downhill again, but he cold not give a time table...could be a few days, could be weeks, could be months...it's a waiting game...

Baker has lost 10 pounds in a little over a month. He has Doxycycline, and we got some good quality canned food to stimulate his appetite, and I just gave him a bath to get rid of the icky kennel stink that dogs always seem to get...I think that helped a little .

I guess all we do is wait until he tells us it is time to go...he is anywhere from 10-12 years old...maybe older. He's had a good 5 years with us, he's been a good dog, despite his lack of socialization ...I will miss him when he is gone...

[Patty1231]

Enjoy the time you have with him, Anne. Although it was difficult to know in advance that I had limited time with Perle because a part of me was grieving every day, I am blessed for having the opportunity to better appreciate every moment I had with her. You all will be in my prayers.

[Judy Chrusch]

I'm really sorry to hear this and weight loss is a big sign. Czar lost ALOT of weight when he was first diagnosed and bc of Bakers age, that of course is against him. What were his kidney levels, do you know yet? Well I hope this poor dog doesn't linger and suffer anymore then he already has. You did all you could Anne. You'll be in my thoughts as well as poor Baker.

Judy

[RottiMomCT]

Originally Posted by Judy Chrusch

I'm really sorry to hear this and weight loss is a big sign. Czar lost ALOT of weight when he was first diagnosed and bc of Bakers age, that of course is against him. What were his kidney levels, do you know yet? Well I hope this poor dog doesn't linger and suffer anymore then he already has. You did all you could Anne. You'll be in my thoughts as well as poor Baker.

I don't know what his levels were - I'll call the vet about it on Thursday. I'm also going to take a urine sample to work (sometimes it IS a good thing to work in a lab that does urine testing!!!) to see what the levels are...they may or may not make slides...not sure what they'll be able to see..but the dipstick chemistries should tell us something...

The vet did a full CBC chem panel, and if I read the printout, he got SIX bags of lactated ringers in the 2 1/2 days he was there...along with a bunch of other stuff (I'll check the printout again tomorrow)...

Thank you Judy and Patty - your support means alot to me...I'll certainly give Baker a scritch and a kiss from both of you...