Need Your Help Please/Diarrhea!

[TheMadHatter]

Hello. I am raising my second Rotty...the first one I had back in 1991 when we lived in San Antonio, TX...great dog and never had an issue with anything. For whatever reason my new rotty Diesel (who is 15 weeks) will not stop eliminating (only poop) in his crate. What is odd is that he will ONLY do it during the night. I am currently sleeping next to the open crate (about 10 feet away) and he is making no sign of having to go at all. What's worse is that it is always (both inside and outside) diarreah(sp?). In fact, it has gotten so bad that it is almost like a spray can when he goes. We have been to the vets (obviously) on 3 separate occassions and everytime his stool checks out fine. I picked him up at 6 weeks of age (a story for another time) and started him on Science Diet. Last month, on the advice of the vet, I decided to make a change to Nutro puppy food. Same result. Diarreah non-stop and pooping in his crate non-stop. Here is/has been his schedule since day one:

1. Wake up 5am for potty and fed in crate
2. Hangs out with me in the house until I drop my daughter off at 9am
3. At 10am back out playing in the house or a 1-2 mile walk around golf course.
4. He is out of his crate all day and gets frequent bathroom breaks unless I have to run out for lunch, etc. Max time in the crate since day one: 3 hours. I work from home so I can hang out with him all day.
5. Dinner at 5pm (water is available to him all day) and water stops at 6pm. If he has to go potty when out of the crate he will just sit by the door...make no noise at all...just sit there. He is house broken without a doubt as his last potty accident was on his 3rd day here...now he goes right to the door.
6. Hangs out with me until 11pm when I take him out for his final walk/potty break...and here is where the fun starts. At around 12:30-1am he will whine to go out again and I take him. Then (and this is what is odd) at around 3am he will poop in his crate and then lay in it. Make no sign that he has to go or has gone. The smell (which is usually what wakes me up) would wake me up from 50 feet. So at 3am I have to wash him and then clean out the crate...he will then repeat the same thing about an hour later...and so will I. I really love this guy but I have not slept in the same bed with my wife in over a month trying to catch him and make the correction...he will never go when I am watching. A few weeks back I actually sat up all night and he just sat there and looked at me when he would stir...the following night (when due to sheer exhaustion I had to sleep) he does the TriFecta going in his crate at 1am, 3am, and again at 4:30am. Needless to say I am one hell of a dog washer at this point I am at a total loss at this point and need some help/suggestions as I have read about 5 books/magazines on rotties and nothing seems to be working. Could it be too much water? Is he rebelling?(and there is NO way I can let him roam around while we sleep) I can't move him outside as we live in Maryland and it is FREEZING out here right now. Furthermore, we have been to puppy training classes and he is a genius...sits, stays, settles, does down, knows wait...I am following the feeding portion recommendations and just can't figure out what is wrong. Thanks for your suggestions/help. Okay, time for my nap in preparation for the 3am/5am wake-up-call...

Thanks,
Travis

[Bucky's Mom]

Welcome to the Forums fellow Maryland person. I would go to a different Vet and describe these symptoms and bring a sample with you.

I can't believe a dog can have explosive loose stools for this long without there being a medical or food intolerance reason.

I would do this ASAP for fear of dehydration and also the fact that he is laying in his own mess is NOT teaching him to keep his den clean (poor guy)

[Miabella]

I agree, get a new vet ASAP. Ongoing diarrhea is not normal, and dehydration is a big risk, especially with such a little guy.

[lblax]

[quote=TheMadHatter I am currently sleeping next to the open crate (about 10 feet away) and he is making no sign of having to go at all. Thanks,
Travis[/QUOTE]let me get this right the crate is open and the dog can come and go free will but he choses his crate to mess in????

[TheMadHatter]

No, sorry about that. What I am trying to say is that the crate is a LifeStages open-air crate that he can see out of on all sides...as opposed to a crate that has 1 or 2 vents on the sides and closed in the rear. We are too afraid (for reasons in the above post) to allow him to make his way around the house unsupervised right now Hope that clears things up.

Cheers,
Travis

[Miabella]

Are you going to find a new vet?

[dmoniz]

Does he have normal stools at other times of the day?

[TheMadHatter]

Yes...I am going to go to a new vet for sure. His stool is runny/watery all day/all night. He has had a few days where for whatever reason it was solid, but that is truly the exception. We cut out all treats and simply go with his kibble for treats now but that has not fixed anything. At the begining we figured it was the treats we were giving him (PupRoni, etc.). I had him out about 30 minutes ago and it was like a spray-can all over the snow. We are going to a new vet in the morning to see what they say. A question I have is is this seen by other owners? Or is it just me? His water comes from the tap so we are also thinking that can't be it...maybe a switch to Deer Park will do it I will be sure to update you as to what the vet says...hopefully a change in food/ingredients is all that is needed.

Cheers,
Travis

[SonnyRott]

Poor pupper! This diarrhea is NOT normal. Good that you cut out the PupRoni....I'm sure that wasn't making his stomach feel any better given the circumstances.

If his stools are also runny during the day, something is wrong. Let us know what the new vet says.

Also, if your tap water is tested and approved for human consumption, I doubt that is your problem.

[moondog]

How long has this been going on (days, weeks, or months)?

I would take this very seriously. Diarrhea is not normal, and it is not a behavior problem. It is not because he is getting too much water, it is because his bowel is not functioning properly to absorb the water he is getting, which can lead to dehydration. If multiple stool samples have been checked and nothing was found, then you and a good vet need to take the next step in determining a cause. I would request a complete blood panel be done to eliminate some more serious causes and ask the vet to check for the possibility of a partial obstruction if he hasn't already.

Getting to the bottom of this is important. You have a young, developing puppy and it is important that he be able to utilize the nutrients he is receiving. Switching foods willy nilly in hopes one will work can cause an increase in intestinal inflammation and make things worse. If other causes have been eliminated and it is thought this is food related, he should be put on an elimination diet to figure out what foods he does best with.

[TheMadHatter]

He has been here with us for 9 weeks now and I would say that the entire time has been 75% diarreah and 25% solid. We had started him on Science Diet and at first thought he was sick or had eaten something (grass) from our yard...then it continued and we asked the vet. They said he was fine but the problem continued. The vet then said there is too much filler/corn in Science Diet and that that was the reason...which we have since figured out is not true. The problem still persists with Nutro. We are going to another vet tomorrow in the hopes of finding out something new or getting some meds to help our pup out. It kills me to see him like this especially when I know that it can't be fun for him. Oh, I was going to ask if 1-2 miles is too much exercise (thinking that that might have contributed) in a walk for a 15 week old? Thanks again to everyone in the forum!

Cheers,
Travis

[Dallasbaby]

Yes, 1-2 miles is too much for such a young puppy, as his bones and joints are still "soft." I was told to wait until my guys were over 1 year old before taking them on such long walks, as to not over exert anything. I imagine it could MAYBE cause hip/knee problems down the road.

My rottie went through a 'bout of diareah a few months back. A weeks worth of Metronidazole cured her up right away. With your pup having the poops like he is.....is there any chance he could've eaten something foreign? Or worms? Or it could be stress related colitis. Hopefully the new vet will have some ideas for you. Good luck!

[RottiMomCT]

Have you tried feeding the pup boiled hamburger and rice (or boiled boneless chicken breast)? Just enough to curb hunger - not a full meal (example - I have a 75 pound male, he got 1/3 cup boiled rice and burger 2 times a day for 5 days until his stool firmed up - I then began adding kibble, a little at a time - after 2 weeks he was all better. His normal ration is 1 1/2 cups of kibble 2 times a day.

I do agree with the others - a vet that says liquid poop is normal and finds nothing in the stool needs to be left behind for another vet. It could simply be intolerance of the food, allergies, or just the need to allow the stomach to settle with a bland diet...

No treats, plenty of water, and bland diet...

Hope the little pupper feels better soon!

[TheMadHatter]

Well, it couldn't have been more on schedule had I planned it out. I decided to move up his feeding time in the evening a bit (to 3pm from 5pm) to see if maybe that would at least give me some short-term relief with the elimination in the crate. I fed my guy at 3pm at which point he played/slept/played/slept until 10:30pm. Not once during that time did he signal that he needed to go out. 7 hours and 30 minutes and nothing...at 10:30pm he made his way to the sliding glass door to sit (his signal that it is time to go). We get outside and he has 5-6 nice firm large pieces of stool and I reacted as if I had just won PowerBall. We walked around the neighborhood a bit and then he has a pile which is less solid (but not liquid) and pretty large. 30 minutes later on our way back in from the golf course he has about a tablespoon of pure liquid. I went from "yes, he is back on track!" to "hmmmm..." But it gets better. So we come inside at which point he lays down and starts to sleep. I figure, okay, time to crate up and let's sleep. He goes down immediately and I am laying right there (10ft away). I awoke on 3 occassions throughout the night to see him just curled into a ball doing nothing throughout the night. Not once did I awake because he was making noise or stirring...that was, until 4:30am when that o-so-familiar smell awoke me like a fire alarm. I opened my eyes, and he was all curled up in a ball sleeping not moving at all...with two HUGE piles (pretty solid) right next to him. They had to be at least 45 minutes old as they were both dried to the crate's raised grill. How is it possible that for 7 1/2 hours he can run around, play, sleep and have no issues, but 3 hours in the crate and it is game on??? I find it statistically impossible that he eats (2 cups Nutro) at 3pm and then 12/13 hours later can leave two piles that large in his crate...especially after the 11pm walk results. What is even scarrier is that I was laying right there...woke up 3 different times and he was just in a ball sleeping...and made no noise/signal that he had to go...well, I just finished cleaning out the crate and washing/drying him...back to bed New vet today at 2pm...

Cheers,
Travis

[RottiMomCT]

A few more questions...

How much is he being fed total per day? To much food could be upsetting his stomach - the feeding guidelines for the food we feed state my dogs should be fed 4-4 1/2 cups per day - if I did that I've have FAT dogs - they get 2-2 1/2 cups per day and are at good weights, shiny coats, plenty of energy, and SMALL firm poops.

What are you cleaning the crate with? If using bleach or something not specifically made for removing feces and urine odors the dog can still smell the poop/pee and thinks it's OK to go in there. Simple Solution, Natures Miracle (there are others too but these two are the two I've used with success), available at PetCo, PetSmart, Pet Supplies Plus, are made for removing these stains & odors.

What are the dimensions of the crate? Possibility that he soils his crate because it is big enough for him to do that and then get out of the space where he's messed 0 potty at one end, sleep at the other. The crate should be big enough for him to enter, turn around and lay comfortably in.

If he's still got runny poops I would recommend the boiled rice and burger (or boneless chicken breast) diet for a few days to see if things 'firm up'. Also, you can feed canned pumkpin (NOT the pie filling with the spices!!) - a tablespoon or two per DAY to help firm things up.