Need Help With a Decision

[MaryJ]

I'm going to try not to make this too long, but I need to give some background. My girl is 2 years old and has always been healthy, with a fantastic temperament. She loves people, especially children, and other animals. In the beginning of August she became quite ill with Hemolytic Anemia. Since then she has been on massive doses of medication...including 120 mg of Prednisone, Immuran, and Tagament. Her PCV is hovering about 3 points below what is considered "normal". My vet does admit that we don't have a baseline PCV on her, so this may even be her normal. However, she keeps pushing us to try more drugs with very serious side effects. The problem is that my dog is MISERABLE!! The prednisone is making her feel like she is starving all the time. She is so thirsty and drinks gallons of water (which in turn makes her unrinate like every 10 minutes). She just got over a 3 week bout of diahrea. The worst part is the change in her temperament. She has always been the most loving, sweet, obedient animal in our home. She has now developed serious food guarding issues (she even guards the cat's and Bichon's food!) She will not listen to commands the first time, commands she has ALWAYS followed without hesitation. The thing that is scaring me is that she is acting very aggressive. She is very pushy with my children, to the point where I am worried she may hurt them. I am also concerned that she will harm my other dog and 2 cats. As it is now I have to gate her in the kitchen to seperate her when I can't be directly observing her. She also is no longer allowed out when other children or adults are visiting. I am so sad about the quality of life she has. This is not how an animal that you love should live. Does anyony have any suggestions or advice. I've shed sooo many tears over this I don't know what to do.
Thank you in advance, I know there's so many people that care on this board! Mary

[lblax]

i think if you re-read your post you have answered all of your own questions.. you could check with another vet to see if the course of treatmant you are recieving is correct and go from there..... but if the treatmant will be the same and the quality of life remains unchanged your dog trusts you to make the right desicision.

[spidey]

Sorry you're having to deal with this. I would find another vet, ideally one who specializes in this kind of problem, and get a second opinion. Discuss the problems you're having with the medication regimen and see if there are any other options.

[2rotties2luv]

The first thing I would be asking the vet is whether or not there is any chance for her recovery. It is one thing if this is a temporary condition but quite another if there is no hope of recovery. If it were my dog and there were no hope of recovery, I would end her misery and allow her to end her life with dignity (and yes, I have done this before). Prolonging the life of a terminally ill dog suffering mental and/or physical discomfort may benefit the owner, but certainly not the dog.
My heart goes out to you - this is certainly one of the most difficult decisions a person has to make.

[fbkeays]

One of the side effects of high dosages of prednisone is personality changes. The pred makes them less "patient" and more "bitchy". If being on pred will be temporary, then when she is off of it, she will return to her normal sweet self.
But the pred is causing her to be much more aggressive then she normally would be. This is where the food guarding is coming from. You are smart to keep her away from others that may not be able to handle her change in behavior. Her behavior may soften the more her body gets adjusted to the level of pred, but may not soften enough for you to completely trust her like you used to.

[macho rottie]

I am so sorry she is so sick. I agree, the Prednisone makes them moody and they also think they are starving...that's where the food guarding comes in. This is only temporary and she will go back to her own sweet self once she is off Prednisone.
I went through this with my female rottie last year. She has Immune Issues.

[brunie's mom]

MaryJ;
Did your dog develop Hemolytic Anemia soon after being vaccinated?? I have read that this is one of the causes that brings this condition on.

I agree with the other posters....get another opinion..or get her to a specialist or teaching hospital. She cannot stay on the large doses or prednisone for too long....it does cause damage to other organs.

Gina

[majicka]

I have to agree w/ the others..I would absolutely get a second opinion on her condition. I would find out if there is an alternative to the pred.

I'm sorry that you have to go through something like this..I can imagine it must be very tough on you and your family.

[fbkeays]

Prednisone is a very powerful steroid. It has many benefits and some side effects. One of those is the personality changes you have seen. Another is that it does weaken muscle, ligaments and tendons- that is what causes the "pred belly", the muscles keeping the abdomen weaken and sag.
Right now I think pred is a miracle drug. My Misty is on 20 mg a day. Six weeks ago she was given 2-3 weeks (lymphoma). The pred is keeping her with us and active. She is herding and doing advanced obedience- two things she loves to do.
Misty is a little "loosey-goosey" in the rear on slippery surfaces, so I have to keep the rough housing to a minium on our hard wood floors- no one thought she would last this long that it would start to effect her ligments, etc.
More information and a second opinion has never harmed anything. I wish you luck.
Francis

[Bucky's Mom]

Originally Posted by lblax

i think if you re-read your post you have answered all of your own questions.. you could check with another vet to see if the course of treatmant you are recieving is correct and go from there..... but if the treatmant will be the same and the quality of life remains unchanged your dog trusts you to make the right desicision.

I have to agree with Larry.

[blackholearkansas]

Mary J -

I understand exactly what you are going through - I have a boy who has HA as well. I am not trying to be discouraging, so hang on. I was told by the internal med vet that approximately 80% of dogs with HA do not recover; but there is a compensated form, and an uncompensated form. Obviously, dogs in the former group manage to live somewhat of a normal life with only intermittent doses of steroids. Your dog is on a massive dose of steroids. Just as in humans, steroids can cause steroid psychosis and alter behavior enormously. Yes, the food guarding can become severe. You will find that she may experience other health problems due to her immunologic deficiencies. My boy developed a hot spot that went from the size of a quarter to the size of a dinner plate almost overnight and will not heal because his immunologic system is compromised. He was only on 60 mg Pred q.d., and we have weaned him down to 30 mg now. He is due for further blood studies this week.

Please consider taking her to an internal medicine specialist. Your average vet does not have the expertise to deal with this very specific problem. The good news is that if she has a compensated case, you may well be able to start reducing the steroids and only have to treat her intermittently with them...the bad news is if she is uncompensated, she will become very ill fairly quickly. Please feed her large quantities of iron-rich foods to help boost her RBCs - livers, organ foods, spinach or other green leafy vegetables. Marrow bones are also goodm, and give her some good vitamins. My vet also has my dog on Vitamin C, which is water soluable. If the dog is overloaded on Vitamin C it is excreted through the kidneys, so you don't have to worry about overdosing her as much. For the diarrhea, I have been giving my boy a couple of tablespoons of pumpking and some yogurt to re-stabilize the gastrointestinal tract.

Unfortunately, there is no cure for HA. I would check with another vet and see if the prednisone could be reduced...she has been on a large amount for a very long time and it does cause liver and kidney damage after extended use. Please see a specialist - if you have a vet school close, that may be an option for you as well. Also, please note that you MUST wean your dog from the steroids slowly...again, go with the specialist's advice.

My thoughts will be with you.

[calmeida2]

I agree with the prednisone comment - even though my medical knowledge is with humans, I know corticosteroids (predisone) can have these effects. And your dog should not be on them for a long time as their are many complications and side effects aside from the emotional ones she is currently experiencing.


Good luck - and in the meantime I would continue to keep her close by, watching her around your kids and other animals.

Claudia

[MaryJ]

I took Asia to the vet today and told her everything I wrote in my email. It surprised me that for the first time she looked at Asia as a member of someone's family and not just a clinical specimen. She seemed genuinely moved and (on her own) said she will be calling Purdue University Animal Hospital tommorrow. I feel a little comforted by that and am hoping that we will get some answers, even if it's not the ones I want to hear. Someone asked if she had recently been vacinated and the answer is no. I'm still struggling with the food issue, in fact while I type this all animal food is picked up and on the kitchen counter. I guess until I hear more I'll just wait for Purdue's advice.
Thanks, Mary

[frontierrots]

Originally Posted by MaryJ

I took Asia to the vet today and told her everything I wrote in my email. It surprised me that for the first time she looked at Asia as a member of someone's family and not just a clinical specimen. She seemed genuinely moved and (on her own) said she will be calling Purdue University Animal Hospital tommorrow. I feel a little comforted by that and am hoping that we will get some answers, even if it's not the ones I want to hear. Someone asked if she had recently been vacinated and the answer is no. I'm still struggling with the food issue, in fact while I type this all animal food is picked up and on the kitchen counter. I guess until I hear more I'll just wait for Purdue's advice.
Thanks, Mary

Recently vaccinated, meaning before she was diagnosed with HA. Most cases of HA are vaccination induced according to the information I've been reading on veterinary website and books

[blackholearkansas]

Mary J -

Wondering if Purdue had any info for you on HA...please share if they did - I am always interested in hearing about the latest treatments. I hope your girl is doing better...keep us posted.