Skin Allergies??? Help please!

[lcarothers]

Need info from others!
Six days ago I noticed 2 dime to quarted size "scabs" on my 23 month old Rottie, "Bubba", they were located on the side of his face under his left ear. There was a clear fluid leaking from both. He was not scratching the areas. He had no other symptoms, no runny eyes, no sneezing,coughing, nothing... My first assumption was the pup got him again while playing (6 month old Rottie, "Rosie" with her sharp puppy teeth) Since there was a discharge I used a sulpher and peroxide shampoo to dry the area, also used neosporin the first 2 days, then treated the area with Benedryl lotion, that may have created the drying and hair loss?...?. Yesterday the 2 areas began to loose hair and I determined that it was vet time....
The vet techs shaved the areas and it was somewhat red, you can see 2 areas that are redder than the surrounding skin, surrounding skin is dry and that is the area that is suffering the hair loss. The vet, (not my regular vet, another from the same practice), gave me a diagnosis of "airborne allergies" that created a "hot spot" and would not listen to me when I stated that he had no other symptons that would suggest allergies. I foolishly allowed them to give him steriod shot. She also gave a prescription of antibiotics, Baytril 136mg 2 x's a day for 7 days.
I have several concerns:
Now I cannot get him allergy tested since he has had the steriod shot, I believe I must wait 1 month.
I have read several of my ref books, 3 of them state that only 10% of "hot spots" require antibiotics.
Is this an allergy, or could this be spider bites, bug bites, infected puppy nips?..?...? We live in SC at the beach, one of the brown recluse capitals of the world. (Don't see any skin suffering from necrosis (hope I spelled that correctly..), and our properly ajoins a state park at the beach, lots of natural bugs and varmits!
The area is not tender, Bubba allowed me to shampoo and inspect with no problems the entire 6 days.
Did my treatment make the area worse?
Do I need to see another vet?
Any help is appreciated! And you won't hurt my feelings if you offer constructive advise!

[Judi W]

Without knowing what it is, there is no way of determing whether the treatment made it worse or not. Hot spots are usually pretty decent sized and weeping. Very small and circular spots make me think of ringworm. Is the dog around barn cats or any animals that might be carrying ringworm? Did the vet put a black light on the area? I've never had a dog with allergies or hot spots, but have certainly seen enough of them. I too believe that food allergies have additional symptoms (ear leathers inflamed, etc.) and generalized inflamation.

[lcarothers]

Judy,
No farm animals. We have an acre with a 7 ft fence for the pups, they are house dogs, only out for play and to potty. I am not with them at all times, they do get the run of the yard. We do get the occasional skink, possom, and snake since we back up to a state park. We go to the beach at least 3 times a week, the salt water has not been a problem before, so I am not considering that at this time.
No, the vet did not use a black light, I was there for the entire exam from techs and the vet.
The 2 scab areas started just like the scabs from nips from the puppy. My first concern was she may have hung on to his jowls and went deeper than she had previously, but don't feel and scar tissue forming where the scabs began. (working on her now, play is play, distracting her when I feel its aggression in action)
My pups are flea free, this is my first situtation of this kind.
The vet only prescribed the antibiotics, no treatment of the area. The combined area is 2" wide by 3" in lenght (may be from the shaving of the area)
I'll read up on ringworm and see if I can locate photos....
I guess my biggest concern is a diagnosis of allergies, I will now have to neuter him if thats the case. I selected him with lots of reasearch on his pedigree, no previous allergies were in his linage.
I'm also worried about giving him antibiotics if they are not needed.
Many thanks for your advice.

[mmgy]

Re ringworm: We had several rounds back years ago, and I don't recall a) any weeping, and b) any spots larger than a dime. Doesn't mean they don't happen, we just didn't see that here.

My gut reaction is hot spot.....flea related.....is there some other kind of fungus that could cause that?

Hi neighbor! Welcome to the forums!

[lcarothers]

Thanks for the welcome!

Just found this board yesterday when reading ref books failed to give me an answer and I checked the web for additional info..
Found pictures of ringworm, the sores/ hot spots did not look the same.
I don't believe they are flea caused hot spots, my pups are on Frontline Plus, no sign of fleas on them. Plus, the fluid was only coming from the 2 dime sized scabs/spots. I am still uncertain if the benedryl lotion is what dried up the surrounding skin.
One of my concerns is spiders. I've never seen so many this year. Each morning I am taking down 10-15 webs on my tomato and pepper plants. Webs (and spiders) are on the garden fence, in some of my bushes, even noticable crawling in the grass.
Fungus, thats another possible, read some mention of that in one of the med ref books.
I believe the biggest mistake is mine in this mess. I should have been more forceful in my objection to the "airborn allergy" diagnosis, refused the cortisone shot, and had him tested for allergies that very minute. That way I would get the results and not question the diagnosis.
Since I had never dealt with this vet before (shes new to the practice) I got the distinct impression she was not happy that he was not neutered at 23 months of age. She continually repeated that since he now has allergies he needs to be neutered.
Perhaps my best option is to wait till the steriod wears off and take him to another vet hosp for the allergy testing.
Now I'll try to see what else I can find on skin disorders. Still haven't located pictures of bug bites that have become infected.
Wish me luck!
Did ya'll in Charlotte wake up to freezing (well, it seemed freezing) temps this morning?

[mmgy]

Well, 39 degrees, close enough this time of year! I had to get my socks back out!

I personally wouldn't have jumped straight to an allergy test, not with a singular incident. What you've described sounds to me like an isolated thing, and a bug bite is a distinct possibility. I'll look and see if I have any links with pictures.

Are your dogs in the water any?

[Judi W]

I agree. Ringworm is absolutely round. What you describe sounds like a hot spot and there are a million different treatments for those - listerine sprayed on, tea tree oil, panalog, gold bond powder,..........long lists and everyone has their favorite.

[lcarothers]

Found a thread on this board that directed me to a great web site w/ pics.
http://www.golden-retriever.com/skin...ems_in_dog.htm
Great info, wonderful pictures. The closest match visually I could get was a photo of a hot spot from fleas, but Bubba's is so very much smaller. He doesn't have the scratching, weeping and rapid spread that they mention for symptoms. Again, bug or spider bite comes to mind but I can't find any photos.
As to water, they're in it daily! We go to the beach at least 3 times a week. (Thats a great story I'll save for another time, I'm guessing most of you know how much work and love it takes to get 2 Rotties to want to be at the same place at the same time on a 2 dog lead, a 23 month old and a 6 month old!!!) If they are not at the beach we have a garden I work daily, and they love the hose, getting a drink, chasing the water stream. The water is from a deep well, not city water, but Bubba was exposed to it all last season.
I loved the favorite treatment suggestion, did a bit of research, and tried to absorb as much as I could since I have never had a dog have this condition. (In my lifetime I've been blessed with dogs that have lived to 13y/o a westie passed away 2001,15y/o a chow --she's still with us, and we're guessing 18 for a yorkie poodle mutt that I picked up from the side of the road, we had her 16 years and the vet thought she was 2 when I found her, she passed in 2001 also.)
My biggest concern is the antibiotics. Does he really need them in his system? As I've stated his symptoms are not severe, on a scale of 1 -10, I'd consider him a 2 with 10 being one of those nasty photos with large weeping sores. I'm watching for necrosis of the skin, it may have been a brown recluse spider bite. Many of the sites state only 10% of hot spots require antibiotics. Any advise on this is appreciated.
You may be correct to hold off on the allergy testing but I think that I will go in for the extra expense when I have the OFA and OFE done. If I'm going to sedate I would rather put him thru it all at once.
Well, I need to get a letter written to the judge and da on the hoarder/puppy mill case in Maxton. I think they need to hear from those of us born and raised in the south that this is no longer acceptable.

[frontierrots]

I've seen some pretty nasty hot spots on the face and neck of Rotts. So much so I call them rottie crusties.

My dogs had them fairly often until I switched to better food about 14 years ago. Then I only had a three cases of them in the past 14 years

Hot spots are created by staph infections under the skin. These infections can be initiated by bug bites, stick scratches, play bites, you name it

I had great luck using domboro's solution as a wash/ hot compress on the areas. I trim the hair but never shave as I feel that shaving actually irritates the skin.

Many people have good luck with tea tree oil and witch hazel solution, gold bond powder and many others. Serious hot spots do indeed require antibiotics.

[babybluetx23]

http://www.vetinfo.com/dencyclopedia/dehotspot.html
"Hot spots" are also known as "acute moist pyoderma". What that means is that they are rapidly appearing, oozing, skin infections. This is just a description of a symptom, sort of like saying "your dog has scabs".

A hot spot starts because something irritates the dog's skin. The body's response is to either itch or create an inflammatory response at the site. In cases of itching, the dog then rubs, licks or chews the site and adds to the problem. These sores can develop into severe problems in an hour or two at times.

The most common irritants are probably fleas and allergies. These cause the itching that leads to the skin infection. There are many other possible sources of irritation. Tick bites, besetting, burrs, mats, mosquitos, summer heat and other problems all contribute to the initial irritation that can develop into a hot spot.

The best treatment for these is prevention. Keep fleas off your dog. Groom and bathe your dog as necessary to keep the haricot in good condition. Limit other sources of irritation to the best of your ability. If allergies are a problem for your dog, work with your vet to control the itching they cause. In some dogs, all of this won't be enough and you will occasionally see hot spots anyway. The first step in treating a hot spot is to get it dry. Bacteria like the hot moist environment of irritated skin. Using something to dry the sore makes it harder for bacteria to grow. Clipping the hair over and around a hot spot can help a great deal in allowing it to dry. There are lots of astringents that will help dry the sore, as well. My favorite is NeoPredef powder because it dries the sore, has an antibiotic that acts locally and a corticosteroid to control the itching and inflammation. Other vets and pet owners have their own favorites. People have advocated using athlete's foot powders, over-the-counter medicated powders, Listerine, rubbing alcohol and many other drying agents. Personally, I think rubbing alcohol is too irritating. Antiseptic solutions can also be helpful, especially if they are also a little astringent. Butadiene solution is a good antiseptic. If the hot spot doesn't respond very quickly to efforts to keep it dry, then you should seek help from your vet. Small areas of acute moist pyoderma can become large area quickly. Some dogs will continue to dig and scratch until they really damage their own skin. Your vet can help make your dog comfortable pretty quickly in most cases

[lcarothers]

Good advice from all!

But, he's not oozing or scratching. The treatment that I provided before the vet of the sulfer/peroxide shampoo, neosporin and then Benedryl lotion dried it up, and then the hair loss began on the 6th day. That is what sent me to the vet.
The 2 areas that were the dime to a quater size scabs are gone, it's now red and rashy looking.

The area is small, never got large.

He has no fleas, he's a very clean dog.

I don't need to dry the area, its dry.

This is my problem-his symptoms don't follow anything I've read so far!

Do hot spots start and stop in a 5-6 day period?

[frontierrots]

IF you catch them quick enough they can start and stop fast, sometimes

It's not itchy because of the steroid shot

MOST hot spots are red and rashy looking after being clipped if they are dry already and the hair always falls out of them as they start to heal because the skin on top dies and peels off. It should growback fine

[lcarothers]

Good, an answer for red and rashy, which shows how much more common sense you have than me, red=some sort of skin infection, dry=scaley=Bubbas spot !!!

But -oh no, not another but- he was not scratching - not when I found the weepy scabby things, not when I was doing the shampoo/ointment treatment for 5 days. Not even now. His big interest is to smell and lick my fingers after I've lightly scratched and rubbed the area,(maybe cause he can't reach they area himself??), which suprisingly does not have a bad odor, much be the sulpher/peroxide shampoo.
I wonder if the sores hurt him if he scratches himself, and thats why he doesn't scratch?? But he does and has let me touch, scrach, and rub the area with no problems.
Tea tree oil has been listed here and also I found several references online. I also read 3 articles on the use of tea bags on the weeping sores. Since he is all dried up with no wet spots or sores, is the oil a good idea to relieve the dry skin?

Well thanks again for all of your ideas, keep them coming, I'm still concerned with his comfort.

[lcarothers]

Update on Bubba's sores!
Yesterday I decided to use a product my Dad had used back when he was a handler w/ the Hampton police dept., Bag Balm.
The dry scaley skin has improved greatly in just 24 hours!

[mmgy]

Cool!!!