X Rays

[frontierrots]

In that case, make arrangements with UC Davis for the xrays to be sent there

[lblax]

Originally Posted by VON KIRCHER

I would agree, and I don't think anyone is trying to lay blame, however, letting things go, when there is a very good chance of neglect is something I won't "drop". Besides, an expert, who had a chance to see the X-Rays, believed that there was something "obvious". His passing was also important enough to us and UC Davis, that we had a complete Necropsy performed. Everyone is trying to "LEARN" from this.

wrong desicions are made everyday in the practice of medicine ...if your not trying to lay blame then the word neglect should have never been mentioned.. they have already proven they have nothing to hide by offering to send them to another vet( and no it wont be your father which would be the same as handing them to you) of your choosing.. now show them you dont have anything up your sleeve and allow them to do this.. if all you want to do is learn than another vet can lead you in that direction. and i agree with frontier rotts statemant have the vet sent the xrays where they done the necropsy

[VON KIRCHER]

Originally Posted by lblax

wrong desicions are made everyday in the practice of medicine ...if your not trying to lay blame then the word neglect should have never been mentioned.. they have already proven they have nothing to hide by offering to send them to another vet( and no it wont be your father which would be the same as handing them to you) of your choosing.. now show them you dont have anything up your sleeve and allow them to do this.. if all you want to do is learn than another vet can lead you in that direction. and i agree with frontier rotts statemant have the vet sent the xrays where they done the necropsy

Absolutely. We will have them sent to Davis. The word neglect was origianally used by another medical professional, not Michelle nor myself. The bottom line with intestinal problems, is that time is critical, to prevent them from going necrotic.
Hypothetically speaking- if an X Ray shows something is wrong, and there is a visible object(s) in the IT, waiting to "see what happens" is not the way to go. 24 hours before anything is done? Call it what you will. I call it neglect.
Just because of the fact that wrong decisions are made in the medical field, does not make it right, or exusable.
I think that it is very sad the way Zeus was treated, and the way Michelle and I were treated. Each time we went to visit, we did not immedietly hear how he was doing, what we heard or should I say asked, was if we had more money! It was made clear that the money was more important than the status of our loved one and was very disheartening. The bottom line is that money was never an issue, and I finally had to tell them, and show them that whatever amount of money was needed is there, so quit asking.
I also found it interesting that UC Davis never, ever brought up the money, the treatment of Zeus was the most importan thing. In addition, they never had a problem with making any copies of his medical records for us.

[chivas]

Originally Posted by lblax

doctors/vets/dentist will never give the individual there xrays and if they do let you carry them somewhere thwey alway make you sign and bring them back , by them stating they would give them to another vet why would you think they were hiding something.... and like you said zues is gone so no one needs them..... and you dont need them.. my advice would be let it drop and not to look for a place to lay blame for your dogs passing..

I wonder if that is true in different states, I have never signed for my dogs' xrays and never brought any back either. Like I stated, the holistic vet kept them. With the ER vet, they made copies so my regular vet could keep them. These were not special circumstances, Ive had to carry MANY xrays to different vets and so forth and never brought ANY back. I dont know if Virginia has different laws on this or maybe it was because I am a longterm client of the vets. No idea.

[lblax]

[quote=chivas] Ive had to carry MANY xrays to different vets and so forth and never brought ANY back. QUOTE]the key here you were carrying these to other vets which i'm sure your vet knew where they were going and more than likely the two conferred with each other... the vet in this case offered to send them to any vet they chose so whats the beef

[Anne]

I asked the ortho for xrays that were taken of my dogs knees so I could show them to the physio. No problem, he handed them straight over and I did not have to sign for them.

Though they did not ask that I return the xrays I will do so on our next visit.

[frontierrots]

I have a cupboard full of xrays. My vets (3 different practices) are more than glad to hand them off. They HATE to store them

[chivas]

I never stated there was any "BEEF", I was just responding to the orginial posters dilema and gave my experience on the subject.
And FYI, I have some xrays of my shelties' here that my vet TOLD me to keep in case I needed them, have had them for 3 years. So, I am thinking its a case by case thing with vets. But since I dont know the laws regarding xray handling, I wont state what I dont know for sure.

[zeus vonkircher]

Originally Posted by chivas

I never stated there was any "BEEF", I was just responding to the orginial posters dilema and gave my experience on the subject.
And FYI, I have some xrays of my shelties' here that my vet TOLD me to keep in case I needed them, have had them for 3 years. So, I am thinking its a case by case thing with vets. But since I dont know the laws regarding xray handling, I wont state what I dont know for sure.

thanks for your advice! and to the "ONES" that have been helpful

[lblax]

Originally Posted by chivas

I never stated there was any "BEEF",

i didnt say you did the thing is there vet is more than willing to send the xrays to any vet they wish theve already given them there records and the vets procedure evidently with xrays are to send them to vets only ..... what more could they ask for????? it doesnt take rocket science to realize why they want them in there hands now does it...if they truthfully just wanted them to give to the vet that they are using now that did the necropsy wouldnt it be just as sufficiant to have them sent there.... since they probably dont have the ability to copy the xrays and the fact that the xrays actually do belong to the vet, and im sure this vet smells a lawsuit on the horizon and without these or without a paper trail of where they are he would be screwing himself later .... the vet has done the proper thing by doing everything above board ...

[MARYDVM]

I would guess that the main difference in vet's policies relates to location. When I was a country practitioner we handed out films without a qualm. I'm in the city now, and every radiograph must be signed out and eventually returned. The radiograph is the vet's property, and they are legally responsible for it. If there is ever a complaint to the vet board or a malpractice suit, being unable to produce the film would count heavily against the vet. The more lawyers in the local population, the more stringent the rules.

[VON KIRCHER]

Originally Posted by lblax

i didnt say you did the thing is there vet is more than willing to send the xrays to any vet they wish theve already given them there records and the vets procedure evidently with xrays are to send them to vets only ..... what more could they ask for????? it doesnt take rocket science to realize why they want them in there hands now does it...if they truthfully just wanted them to give to the vet that they are using now that did the necropsy wouldnt it be just as sufficiant to have them sent there.... since they probably dont have the ability to copy the xrays and the fact that the xrays actually do belong to the vet, and im sure this vet smells a lawsuit on the horizon and without these or without a paper trail of where they are he would be screwing himself later .... the vet has done the proper thing by doing everything above board ...

You see, I was just waiting for you to say this...Neither of us ever said anything about a lawsuit. And I know there are laws in place to protect business' and practices, but just because a law is in place does not mean that they cannot be held accountable for their actions.
Let me just clarify a few things, because you seem to be such an expert in this area. There were 3 Vetinary practices that dealt with Zeus' treatment. 2 of 3 believe some things should have been done differently. Now the 3rd that is in question has no idea that their procedure and care in question. I find it interesting that they are the practice that has the problem with releasing any of his records, not just his X Rays.
In fact the X Rays are not really the issue. I have spoken to my father, who is Both a DVM and a MD, and he explained that the X Rays are the property of the Vet that took them.
Why don't you just, point blank answer this question for me? Do you believe that a business, which is supposed to be the best, should be able to make questionable decisions that can adversly impact your animals?
Lastly, even if Zeus would have pulled through this, we would still be asking these questions, and believe me, Larry, so would you.

[lblax]

Originally Posted by VON KIRCHER

There were 3 Vetinary practices that dealt with Zeus' treatment. 2 of 3 believe some things should have been done differently.

in every scenerio it is easy to look back and find many things that should have been done differantly

Now the 3rd that is in question has no idea that their procedure and care in question. I find it interesting that they are the practice that has the problem with releasing any of his records, not just his X Rays.

well you stated earlier that they had given you copies of your records and that they would gladly transfer the xrays to another vet , but they would not just give you the xrays......so in all reality they are being forth right with you and as far as them not knowing that they are in question of there procedures i will answer this this way , they are not stupid there is no reason that you would need these transfered to another vet let alone to your self other than questioning there abilities and procedures
Why don't you just, point blank answer this question for me? Do you believe that a business, which is supposed to be the best, should be able to make questionable decisions that can adversly impact your animals?

i'm sure the vet(especially since they are suppose to be the best) made rational and honest desicians based on your dogs condition at the time, sometime desicions are not always the right desicion but we can spend a lifetime second guessing each and everyone we make and hind sight is 20/20
Lastly, even if Zeus would have pulled through this, we would still be asking these questions, and believe me, Larry, so would you.

if he had pulled through there would be no questions to ask, the initial vet would be your heroe , and know i wouldnt be asking these questions because i have resurched my vet choices and i am satisfied that what ever happens live or die that she has given the very best to her abilities medical care to my animals

[VON KIRCHER]

Originally Posted by lblax

if he had pulled through there would be no questions to ask, the initial vet would be your heroe , and know i wouldnt be asking these questions because i have resurched my vet choices and i am satisfied that what ever happens live or die that she has given the very best to her abilities medical care to my animals

Actually you might be asking these questions if it was 11pm and your vet was not open, and you only had one choice. Because this discussion is pretty much at a stand off, and we have found out the procedures and regulations on Vet. Property, we may have to agree to disagree.

I will tell you flat out, that these questions would be asked if he would have pulled through. The treatment received by UC Davis was the best available, and we learned quite the lesson, that if there is an emergency, we'll be heading up there. Zeus actually died in their care, and we hold no ill feelings for the Experts and Angels at Davis. Not only was he treated like the Special Boy he was, my family and I were as well.

Just because an outcome is good, does not mean that the path taken to get there was correct. Thanks for your input.