Hoping someone may have seen this before

[HOLYTERROR]

I told my trainer friend that I would put this out here to see if there was anyone that had heard of this problem with her dog or if anyone had a suggestion as to what might be wrong. At this point in time, if there are no new suggestions, Sampson is going to be put down Friday.

Sam has been suffering from projectile bowel movements (severe diarrhia) almost a neon yellow in color with no abnormal oder. There has been a severe weight loss over the past 2 months of 30 pounds or more. Within the past 2 weeks, there has been an excessive about of drinking and urinating and the urine is almost as clear as water. He seems to suffer from periodic bouts of cramping with pain, his gums and penis are very pale, sometimes almost a gray in color, no vomiting or bleeding at any point in time.

The diarrhia has occured several times over the course of a year, but nothing so drastic that there was a concern and never like the yellow diarrhia that I saw today. He's had rapid breathing attacks that are very loud.

Julie has taken Sampson to the vet only to have his blood work come back normal. The treatments tried have been: 1. 24 hour fast, 2. bland diet, 3.blood test for pancreitis (sp?) 4. injections for diarrhia, 5. I/D food + diarsanyl.

Julie's going to let him go if nothing new is suggested by her vet... she asked me to put this on here hoping that someone MIGHT know something or has seen something like this before. Right now she's not holding out a lot of hope for Sampson and preparing for his loss at the end of the week.

Kimberly

[Bucky's Mom]

I have no idea - i am only replying to offer sympathy - I am sorry :(

[sandyz]

I too have no ideas, but I do hope someone here can help. Stories such as this are so hard.

[Judi W]

My guess> Chronic canine IBD is a very serious disease. Pred can help but is limited in its effectiveness. Some breeds are more suseptable than others and it does not seem that diet is as helpful as one would expect it to be. Scoping and tissue samples are not always definitive.

[frontierrots]

have they done a stool CULTURE to be certain that they are not dealing with a bacterial intestinal issue? That would cause cramping, pain (ie the panting) and odd colored stool.

a severe infestation of a protozoal parasite could also cause these symptoms as well as the pale mucous membranes from internal bleeding or anemia

he could also have a pancreatic insufficiency that produces zero pancreatic enzymes. We've had several GSDs board with that and if they don't get their pancreatic enzymes they have stool like you describe

[Karinka200]

Has he ever been on Rimadyl???? or any other meds????

Our lab died from complications related to Rimadyl...although some of the symptoms are similar, not all are. And, you did state the tests came back normal...so if not Rimadyl...perhaps another drug????

[HOLYTERROR]

Just to be very clear, the diarrhia has been none stop for 2 months... I saw Sampson today and sat with him for about 5 hours... it's obvious there's SOMETHING wrong, he's a very unhappy dog and without a diagnosis, Julie doesn't dare to keep him hanging on through this too much longer. It's getting to the point where you can see it on his face that he no longer is feeling well.

I've wondered if it were a cancer of some kind... but the there are no apparent lumps and the vet didn't find anything either, although he told Julie not to rule it out.

Kimberly

[HOLYTERROR]

I can ask her, but he's not been on any meds that I know of for a year or more.

Julie has been wondering if it's possible he'd gotten into some poison.... there's nothing on her property that he could have gotten into. She has 2 other dogs besides him, she boards lots of dogs and she does personal training within her home. None of the other dogs hers and others have developed any problems... Sampson seems to be the only one effected.

Kimberly

[HOLYTERROR]

Diane,

Julie had the test done to see if there was a problem with the pancreas and it came back normal.

After watching him today, I suggested the stool sample.... I think she's going to try and collect one tomorrow morning.

Judi W - are there any suggestions for chronic IBD? or is this a no win situation if a dog is diagnosed with it?

Everyone keep coming with the suggestions, ideas and possibilities... I'm going to print everything off first thing in the morning and call her. She and I'll start weeding out the ones that obviously don't fit and then she's going to discuss some of this stuff with her vet.

Kimberly

[HOLYTERROR]

I just did a search here on IBD.... I think she should really talk to her vet about the possibility that may be the problem before she puts Sampson down. From what Julie has said, Sam was a rottie that had been abandoned and left to fend for himself in a dump... so god only knows what he could have eaten during that time. He's 5 years old and she's had him for 4 years. This all seemed to have started when Julie was asked to boarded a female in heat... Sampson hasn't been the same since.

She kept him on a rice and chicken diet for quite some time and at one point, his stools started to firm up. He was solid for about a week and then he went back to the diarrhia.

I'll talk with her bright and early in the morning and relay along what everyone has said. Maybe there's a light at the end of the tunnel yet.

Kimberly

[frontierrots]

the stool culture (as in sent out to a lab not a test done at the vet's) and a careful protozoal exam (can be done at the lab or the vet's office if he knows how to properly do one, it is more difficult than a worm check and many vets don't have the hang of it.) would be the two easiest next steps

[Judi W]

I know of two Rottweilers who had IBD. Males and littermates, owned by different people, came down within a year of each other. One belonged to a lady who had always fed raw and used a naturopathic vet, remedies, colestrum, etc., the other had lived on a decent kibble and used regular medicine. Diagnosis with the one dog was pretty much done by symptoms (he was put on Pred btw, the naturopathic vet was a real vet and at least recognized that something require medicine). The other dog had complete workup including an colonoscopy, biopsy, etc. Both would have brief periods of ups and downs and both died about 6 months after symptoms became serious.

[macho rottie]

My female rottie has IBD disease. She also has an Immune Mediated Disorder. Here is some information for you...

http://www.pressenter.com/~dvmvis/canInflammbowel.htm

[moondog]

My dog has a protein-losing enteropathy, which is a severe form of IBD. She had neon yellow projectile diarrhea that was pure liquid at first. Her hind legs were swollen with edema and she developed a bacterial overgrowth in her intestinal tract which made her extremely ill. She cannot absorb fat in her system (probable lymphangectasia). She lost 32 pounds in five weeks, was very, very weak and stopped eating completely. She was at death's door.

If any of that sounds familiar, do a search on my name (moondog) in vet's corner and read more.

Prednisone was (and is) a life saver and brought her out-of-control immune response under control. Colloidal silver helped bring the balance back to her intestinal bacteria. These medications and a completely home-cooked diet have brought her back to a really good state of health. It took me 8 months to realize she couldn't tolerate more than a token amount of meat in her diet and once I switched to other protein sources, she began to improve. With the help of both conventional and holistic vets, her treatment consists of traditional medications and homeopathy. Three years later, she has just turned 9 and is still bounding around, happy and full of life. Her disease is not curable, but it is manageable.

IBD is a challenge to manage and not all dogs can survive it, but it can be done. I'd call around and find a vet that is very familiar with it before a decision to euthanize is made. Whatever vet she uses, they need to be open minded about a symbiotic relationship between traditional and holistic treatments. Each of Luna's vets work for her with respect for the benefits the other forms of treatment may bring. Makes a BIG difference.

[HOLYTERROR]

Thanks everyone for all the information. I talked with Julie this morning bright and early to relay everything on and to see how Sampson is doing. She's going to put him down as he's suffering incrediably. This has dragged on for 2 months with tests that keep coming back normal and vet visits... she doesn't want him suffering any longer.

Kimberly