The Vaccine Controversy

[Russell Verdin]

THE VACCINE CONTROVERSY

After many decades of yearly combined vaccinations, many "dog experts"
are now saying yearly vaccinations may not be needed and are probably
harmful to your pet. Here at Shalako, we tend to agree and our personal
practice has changed in the past year. This page is to present some facts
on the vaccine controversy so that you may decide for yourself what is best
for your pet. Please, don't change your vaccination schedule without
researching the facts, both pro and con. If you have had problems with
vaccines and your pets, email us at:

It is absolutely amazing the number of emails I have received concerning
vaccinations that have caused problems in peoples pet. Please discuss this
issue with your vet and please do as much research on the subject as you
can.

Hope you find this interesting, and if you can help out, please do!

Hi from Australia,

I came across your website while researching adverse reactions in puppies to vaccines. I
had a perfectly healthy litter of
11 Black Russian Terrier pups who were vacinated at 6 weeks and within 3 weeks all had
been very ill, 4 died 1 is still
on the drip. This started with the pups crying all night after vaccination, pain at the vacc
site for all the next day,
diarrhoea, lethergy, not eating for a couple of days and then they seemed to recover but a
few days later were very ill,
the smallest pup died and autopsy showed coccidiosis and telescoped intestine from the
vomiting and diarrhoea but the
vet did not look any further, all pups and parents were treated for cocci but 2 of the pups
did not respond and later died,
the lab results were parvo. By the time the lab results were back 2 more pups were getting
sick again and it was too late
to save one of them. I am fileing a report to our NRA about this and have been recieving
hundreds of e-mails about
similar symptoms in other pups. I intend to attach personal storys from as many people as
possible, without identifying
names or e-mail addresses, to my report in the hope that they will sit up and take notice.
If I can get enough e-mails
from others who have had a bad reaction to vaccination maybe we can make a difference
for puppies in the future.

If you know of anyone who would be willing to share their experiences with me I would
be very greatfull. I will not
reveal names or addresses. Any one who wishes to can e-mail me on the address
below

Thanks

Dot Sweeney

Cimarron Black Russian Terriers

Australia

www.black-russian-terriers.com





The following is taken word for word from Kirk's Current Veterinary
Therapy XI (Small Animal Practice), page 205, 1992.
Authors:

Tom R Phillips, DVM, Ph.D.
Associate Member
The Scripps Research Institute
La Jolla California

Ronald D Schultz, Ph.D.
Professor and Chairman
Department of Pathobiological Sciences
School of Veterinary Medicine
University of Wisconsin

Annual Vaccination
A practice that was started many years ago and that lacks scientific
validity or verification is annual revaccinations. Almost without
exception there is no immunologic requirement for annual
revaccination. Immunity to viruses persists for years or for the life of
the animal. Successful vaccination to most bacterial pathogens
produces an immunologic memory that remains for years, allowing an
animal to develop a protective anamnestic (secondary) response
when exposed to virulent organisms. Only the immune response to
toxins requires boosters (eg: tetanus in humans), and no toxin
vaccines are currently used for dogs or cats. Furthermore,
revaccination with most viral vaccines fails to stimulate an
anamnestic (secondary) response as a result of interferance by
existing antibody (similar to maternal antibody interferance). The
practice of annual vaccination in our opinion should be considered of
questionable efficacy unless it is used as a mechanism to provide an
annual physical examination or is required by law (ie: rabies
vaccinations in some states).

Dr. Ronald D. Schultz, Ph.D., D.V.M.

For those of you not familiar with Dr. Schultz I should mention that he
is recognized as a pioneer in clinical immunology and vaccinology. As
Professor and Chair of Department of Pathobiological Sciences at the
School of Veterinary Medicine, University of Wisconsin-Madison his
work is well known in both the allopathic and holistic veterinarian
communities.

Wow! If you’re looking for someone with ‘authority’ to refer to the
nonsense of annual boosters, get your ‘doubting Thomas’ to call on
Dr. Schultz. Not only does he confirm that their is no science for this
practice, he also warned of the possibility for law suits, if a Vet
continues to recommend them. He pointed out that immunity to
viruses persists for years or for the life of the animal.

He eloquently covered the many factors that can effect the immune
response to a vaccine. The blocking effect of colostral antibody from
the mother, the nature of the vaccine, the route of vaccination, the
age of the animal, its general nutritional condition, concurrent
infections, drug treatments—all may have an influence on the success
of an immunization program.

Maternal antibody interference is the most common cause of vaccine
failure. The fetus develops a functional immune system at 45 to 50
days into gestation. The level of maternal immunity at the time of
birth will vary considerably, even among litter mates, but in general
will stay high for 10 days to 2 weeks. A major cause for reduced
immune response during the first week, is ‘hypothermia’. It is
important that a temperature of 99° F be maintained during this
critical time frame!

Between 2 week and 4 weeks, while still nursing, the immune system
of the neonate grows and begins to take on its own duties. At the
time of weaning, the immune system suffers from a decrease in
nutrients and can be significantly lowered from a lack of Vitamin E
and selenium. This is particularly true with ‘canned’ foods so it is
better to start with ‘dry’ food. At 8 to 10 weeks, the neonate is closer
to having an adult immune system. (Ed. Note: raw fresh food is of
course best for weaning)

Because maternal antibodies can persist far longer then previously
thought possible, Dr. Shultz strongly recommends that the last
vaccination take place at 22 weeks for a puppy and 16 weeks for a
kitten. There is new information that indicates that as many as 20%
of dogs at 18 weeks have enough maternal antibodies to prevent
successful parvo immunization. (Note: previously it was recommended
that the last immunization in the series occur at 12 to 16 weeks of
age).



Make sure your vet is aware of these new findings!!

Here’s a real kicker. A major problem, especially for parvo, is that the
virus is able to infect an animal with levels of maternal antibody even
though the antibodies prevent active immunization!! There is
generally a 2 to 5 week "window of vulnerability" and in heavy parvo
environments, as much as a 10 week "window", when an animal can
be infected with the virus but cannot be successfully immunized!!

On the question of modified live versus ‘killed’ vaccines, Dr. Schultz is
of the opinion that both have a place in the immunization schedule.
Currently, there are no absolute answers.

He felt that because MLV vaccines replicate in the host, they more
closely resemble virulent viral infections and generally produce a
stronger and more durable protective immune response than killed
vaccines. This "better" immune response has a cost: a decrease in
vaccine safety. Certain modified live vaccines can induce
immunosuppression, may shed into the environment, and may revert
to virulence or cause vaccine-induced disease.

Killed vaccines on the other hand, are safer but require a large
antigenic dose, multiple immunizations and often the use of adjuvants
that can cause an increase in systemic vaccine reactions. Also, killed
vaccines generally produce weaker immune responses with a shorter
duration than the modified live vaccines. Sometimes the immune
responses they produce lead to immunopathological disease at time
of infection rather than providing protection. With respect to dosages,
he pointed out that at the cellular level, the same number of receptor
cell sites exist regardless of the size of the body, thus there is no
justification for adjusting dosage quantities for different breeds of
animals. (see Jean Dodds segment for a different opinion).

He does favor MLV for Parvo in high risk areas. He feels that ‘killed’
vaccine is too slow in providing immunization due to the need for
multiple shots. He pointed out that the Parvo vaccine is expensive to
produce, so the companies use as little as possible in each dose.

As modified live vaccines replicate in the body a "mini" dose is still
effective. With killed vaccine, how much is enough? His research into
the effectiveness of vaccines, has led to the manufacturers revising
several of their formulas. He cautioned the audience not to dilute or
split the dosage when administering any ‘killed’ vaccine.

With respect to nutritional deficiencies, someone in the audience
asked about "Blue-Green Algae". Dr. Schultz commented that in his
experience, their can be a danger of nutrient toxicosis. He knows of
ponds in his area, with blue-green algae, where dogs that have
jumped into a pond have suffered paralyses and in some cases have
died.

In general, he felt that modified live vaccines when given to animals
in good general health have no clinical indication of
immunosuppression.

(Ed note: Dr. Dodds points out that the MLV trials by Dr. Schultz have
only been tested on purposely bred Beagles and not breeds that are
genetic and familial susceptible to suppression. She advocates
"killed" vaccines.)

Current Veterinary Therapy by Kirk, the textbook bible for
veterinarians in general, has an article on canine and feline vaccines
by two researchers. Near the end of the article is a paragraph called
Annual Vaccinations. It states "The practice of annual vaccinations
lacks scientific validity or verification. There is no immunological
requirement for annual vaccinations. The practice of annual
vaccinations should be considered of questionable efficacy unless it
is used as a mechanism to provide an annual physical examination or
is required by law." Sure, if we can't manipulate you with annual
vaccinations let's pass a law to get you into the office. Nice trick!

What Vets Don't Tell About Vaccines

previously entitled

Who Killed the Darling Buds of May?

What Vets don't tell you about vaccines.

by Catherine O'Driscoll

: The second edition is now entitled 'What vets don't tell you about vaccines': ISBN 0
9523048 3 X'. This is available in North America from Our Pets, PO Box 2094,
Fort Macleod, Alberta, T0L 0Z0, Canada - email: Order from Our Pets Inc.
Prices delivered - US$22.95 & C$30.98 inclusive of GST.

We don't vaccinate humans every year, so why is it that we are
advised to vaccinate our dogs and cats annually? It is well known
that a certain number of humans will be damaged by vaccines, but
vets claim that only a tiny minority of dogs and cats suffer adverse
vaccine reactions. Is this true?

After the death of two young dogs, Catherine O'Driscoll discovered
that the risks of vaccination are much higher than anyone cares to
admit - the 'tiny minority' is a significant significant number! Today,
many vets around the world are questioning the vaccine regime. Some
assert that vaccines do more harm than good, and the risks far
outweigh the benefits.

Turning the world on its head, Catherine O'Driscoll gives you -
ordinary dog owners and lovers - the information that vets won't or
can't tell you. Her aim is to share the truth so that dog lovers
everywhere can make informed choices about the well-being of the
pets they treasure. In fact the risks are much higher than are
admitted. When is it right to vaccinate, when not to vaccinate? This
book reveals the answers. There is solid scientific research to
demonstrate that vaccines can be harmful. This book gives the
researched facts about:

vaccines that can cause encephalitis, an inflammation of the brain -
encephalitis has many diverse symptoms, usually involving a highly
sensitised state such as allergies, skin problems, behavioural problems,
convulsions, eating disorders, and more.
vaccines that are mixed with deadly poisons.
vaccines that can cause the diseases they are designed to prevent.
vaccines that shed into the environment, spreading disease.
vaccines that disarm and unbalance the immune system.
vaccines which need and do not need annual usage .

FROM THE VETMED LIST (a list on the internet dedicated to vet
students) Comments in ( ) are those of the person who received this
email from the list.

"Dear Boarding Kennel Owner: "I would like to make you aware that
all 27 veterinary schools in North America are in the process of
changing their protocols for vaccinating dogs and cats.

"Some of this information will present an ethical & economic
challenge to vets, and there will be skeptics. Some organizations
have come up with a political compromise suggesting vaccinations
every 3 years to appease those who fear loss of income vs those
concerned about potential side effects. Politics, traditions, or the
doctor's economic well being should not be a factor in medical
decisions.

NEW PRINCIPLES OF IMMUNOLOGY

"Dogs and cats immune systems mature fully at 6 months. If a
modified live virus vaccine is given after 6 months of age (this is
different from what I was told on the phone), it produces an immunity
which is good for the life of the pet (ie: canine distemper, parvo,
feline distemper). If another MLV vaccine is given a year later, the
antibodies from the first vaccine neutralize the antigens of the
second vaccine and there is little or no effect. The titer is not
"boosted" nor are more memory cells induced. "Not only are annual
boosters for parvo and distemper unnecessary, they subject the pet
to potential risks of allergic reactions and immune-mediated
hemolytic anemia.

"There is no scientific documentation to back up label claims for
annual administration of MLV vaccines. "Puppies receive antibodies
through their mothers milk. This natural protection can last 8-14
weeks. Puppies & kittens should NOT be vaccinated at LESS than 8
weeks. Maternal immunity will neutralize the vaccine and little
protection (0-38%) will be produced. Vaccination at 6 weeks will,
however, delay the timing of the first highly effective vaccine.
Vaccinations given 2 weeks apart suppress rather than stimulate the
immune system. A series of vaccinations is given starting at 8 weeks
and given 3-4 weeks apart up to 16 weeks of age. Another vaccination
given sometime after 6 months of age (usually at 1 year 4 mo) will
provide lifetime immunity (another difference from the phone call).

CURRENT RECOMMENDATIONS FOR DOGS

"Distemper & Parvo. According to Dr. Schultz, AVMA, 8-15-95, when a
vaccinations series given at 2, 3 & 4 months and again at 1 year with
a MLV, puppies and kitten program memory cells that survive for life,
providing lifelong immunity. "Dr. Carmichael at Cornell and Dr.
Schultz have studies showing immunity against challenge at 2-10
years for canine distemper & 4 years for parvovirus. Studies for
longer duration are pending. "There are no new strains of parvovirus
as one mfg. would like to suggest. Parvovirus vaccination provides
cross immunity for all types. "Hepatitis (Adenovirus) is one of the
agents known to be a cause of kennel cough. Only vaccines with
CAV-2 should be used as CAV-1 vaccines carry the risk of "hepatitis
blue-eye" reactions & kidney damage. "Bordetella Parainfluenza:
Commonly called "Kennel cough", recommended only for those dogs
boarded, groomed, taken to dog shows, or for any reason housed
where exposed to a lot of dogs. The intranasal vaccine provides
more complete and more rapid onset of immunity with less chance of
reaction. Immunity requires 72 hours and does not protect from every
cause of kennel cough. Immunity is of short duration (4 to 6
months). RABIES : "There have been no reported cases of rabid dogs
or cats in Harris, Montogomery or Ft. Bend Counties [Texas], there
have been rabid skunks and bats so the potential exists. It is a
killed vaccine and must be given every year. [the vets here give the 3
year vaccine which is the same one labeled at as one year vaccine,
guess he doesn't realize a lot of us know this, I'm not sure about now,
but at one time the vets had to use the vaccine labeled 3 years
yearly] "Lymes disease is a tick borne disease which can cause
lameness, kidney failure and heart disease in dogs. [This is the least
of the tick diseases; we get at least 3 of the others in the Houston
area; humans can also get one or more of these diseases at the same
time, just like the dogs {last year I personally knew of 5 dogs who had
one of the tick diseases and one person who had 2 of them}]. Ticks
can also transmit the disease to humans. "The original Ft. Dodge
killed bacteria has proven to be the most effective vaccine. "Lyme
disease prevention should emphasize early removal of ticks. Amitraz
collars are more effective than Top Spot, as amitraz paralyzes the
tick's mouth parts preventing transmission of disease.

VACCINATIONS NOT RECOMMENDED

Multiple components in vaccines compete with each other for the
immune system and result in lesser immunity for each individual
disease as well as increasing the risk of a reaction. "Canine Corona
Virus is only a disease of puppies. It is rare, self limiting (dogs get
well in 3 days without treatment). Cornell & TexaA&M have only
diagnosed one case each in the last 7 years. Corona virus does not
cause disease in adult dogs. "Leptospirosis vaccine is a common
cause of adverse reactions in dogs. Most of the clinical cases of
lepto reported in dogs in the US are caused by serovaars (or types)
grippotyphosa and bratsilvia. The vaccines contain different
serovaars eanicola and ictohemorrhagica. Cross protection is not
provided and protection is short lived. Lepto vaccine is
immuno-supressive to puppies less than 16 weeks.

LIST OF LINKS ABOUT VACCINES:

http://www.unc.edu/~aphillip/www/vaccine/vacpages.htm

GENERAL VACCINE DISCUSSION:

http://www.europa.com/~dshecklr/Vaccinations2.html

ARE WE VACCINATING TOO MUCH?

http://www.europa.com/~dshecklr/Vaccinations2a.html

ALTERNATIVE TO VACCINES:

http://www.altvetmed.com/vaccine.html

IMMUNE SYSTEM:

http://www.golden-retriever.com/dodds.html

LOOK UP ANY KIND OF HEALTH PROBLEM

http://www.vetinfo.com/dogindex.html

[Brooke&Ryan]

Thank you for the article & the links. I'll be checking them out!

:)
Brooke

[Squeaky2004]

Thanks for the info. Will be checking them out for sure :)

[Judi W]

Source please? Who is writing from "here in Shalako", is that you?

[Russell Verdin]

I surf the net a lot looking for rottweiler info of importance to share with
other rottweiler owners.
So far only 1 major rottweiler forum has deleted this post.
I do not know why they would have deleted this post because there is no
profanity or any such thing but info, web site, and links on this post.
I am glad to see that the owner of this forum has an open mind.
So if everyone could spread the word about the Vaccine Controversy, I would
be forever greatful.
Because I have losted a dog to the deadly vaccine.

[MARYDVM]

There are a number of factual errors in the original post - the most glaring one: adenovirus hepatitis does not cause kennel cough - it causes Hepatitis.

Fort Dodge has just introduced a vaccine tested by clinical challenge to provide immunity for 3 years against parvo, distemper, and hepatitis. It contains only these three (core) viruses and would be a good choice for a vaccination at 1 year of age for those who want to minimize vaccination. The usual puppy protocol has not changed.

[Burnsway]

Originally Posted by Russell Verdin

So far only 1 major rottweiler forum has deleted this post.
I do not know why they would have deleted this post because there is no
profanity or any such thing but info, web site, and links on this post.

There is another "MAJOR ROTTWEILER FORUM"???????.......

Maybe they deleted it because when I first saw it , it looked as if maybe you were trying to sell it, chummy up some business maybe. Putting info such as this out with no source except emails and articles that are all connected to looks to be the same connections, and you have a whole 2 post, looks more like spamming then educational information......Just my opinion though so don't worry........

[Burnsway]

Originally Posted by Judi W

Source please? Who is writing from "here in Shalako", is that you?

You put things so much better then me.......do you give socialization lessons for humans too......... :D Sign me up........ :o

[Judi W]

I always want to know the source especially when something is represented as data or scientific. That is the only way to evaluate the reliability of the information. When a whole bunch is pasted together, one must attempt to separate the lot. Much of the info is long accepted and not new. It is interspersed with alarmist material, unidentified experts and ancedotal reports. Yes, there are occasions when bad and/or fatal reactions can occur. Just as there are many occasions when unprotected animals suscumb to disease that they could have been vaccinated against. Epidemology dictates that when the majority of the population is protected, disease is less likely to gain a foothold in the community, whether animals or humans. CSU quite some time ago recommended that 3 years vaccinations might, depending upon the exposure of the individuals, be adequate.

The Ft. Dodge vaccine Mary has given us information on will be a welcome solution. They definitely would not be marketing this if they had not done clear and careful clinical trials.

I have seen the results of distemper running through a shelter even when a decent number of the animals had been vaccinated. The result was death.

[frontierrots]

Originally Posted by MARYDVM

There are a number of factual errors in the original post - the most glaring one: adenovirus hepatitis does not cause kennel cough - it causes Hepatitis.

Mary, perhaps that was a misquote?

ALL the literature I have here from vaccine companies says that the standard combo vaccine DHP+Pv plus Bordetella separately covers the three most common forms of canine cough

Parainfluenza
Bordetella
and
Adenovirus type 2 which causes BOTH a form of canine cough and hepatitis

Additionally thugh Fort Dodge is coming out with a licensed 3 year product. It honestly is just their old product retested (confirming at least 3 years of good titers) and re packaged and re priced

I won't use Fort Dodge products. I've seen too many vaccine reactions to them. I was told by a Fort Dodge representative- by phone at their main office, oh 12 years ago, that they were well aware that their adjuvents caused higher reactions than many other vaccines in some dogs. I've even had two dogs that could not have a Fort Dodge vaccine because of immediate reactions to them. Both dogs were fine with Progard or Smith Kline Beecham products

I'll stick with Progard as a puppy and then titers thank you

[MARYDVM]

Canine Adenovirus type ll is included in the vaccine because it cross protects against the deadly Canine Adenovirus type l that causes hepatitis. The type ll virus can only cause a mild upper respiratory infection, but that is certainly not the reason it is included in vaccination schedules.

[Squeaky2004]

I don't take any info seriously(depending on what it is about) until I check it out for myself (asking my vet most times). I just read it because i have heard of many vaccine ....for lack of a better word..arguments. :)

[Russell Verdin]

I Russell Verdin am in xtreme error.
I forgot to post the authors name in my post.
I apologize for my ignorance.
The authors name is Bette Wynn owner of
Schalako Schippers Kennel.
And I have her permission to post The Vaccine
Controversy.
Once again I apologize.