Why do they fight like this

[Vivianne]

Well we're off to the vet because the girls got into an ugly fight inside the house. Without warning they got into the worst squabble yet. Madison has the worst of the lessions as well as 4 punctures covering her entire shoulder area. Mia has a bite wound to her neck where the extra skin is below her jaw.

Will let you know what the vet says.

[Miabella]

Grudges between bitches are not uncommon, these girls don't forget the small slights. Couple that with the fact that you have 2 adolescents of the same age, they are both jostling for rank. Hate to say it, it is more likely to get worse, and possibly much worse, than better. :(

[samanthac]

Originally posted by Vivianne
Without warning they got into the worst squabble yet.

So this has happened more than once? I hate to have to be the one to say this, but this will just continue to escalate if these girls are allowed to run together until either one or both dogs are either dead or fatally wounded. Once two bitches have it in for each other, they will spend the rest of their lives trying to kill each other at every opportunity they get. I have seen this time and time again.

For the safety of both dogs you have two options. One is that you keep both dogs but keep them completely seperate and in different parts of the house. These dogs must never be allowed to come in contact with each other. Everyone in the house must be trained to understand this so there are no accidents. I can tell you that this is VERY tedious and 9 times out of 10 there ends up being an accident...someone did not realize the other dog was still out, etc. I have a friend who just lost BOTH her bitches when they accidentally got out together and got into a fatal fight that they were not able to safely break up.

The other option is to simply place one of the bitches into a home where she will be the ruler of the roost and the only female. It is no life for a dog to be quarantined for part of their lives to keep them from killing another dog. Plus it is very wearing on the person trying ti keep them seperated. Putting one of them in a home where they do not have to compete for top dog position is a very fair and humane solution.

Good luck.

[spidey]

I have to agree with Samantha - odds are that this will only get worse. I lived with two males who had to be kept separate, which was a huge strain, and males are usually nowhere near as bad about this as bitches are. They've already shown you that they can't live together safely - it's time for you, as a responsible owner, to either keep them separated permanently or rehome one before one or both get killed. It's been said here many times: males usually fight to make a point, bitches fight for keeps. They fight like this because they've taken a dislike to each other, it's unlikely that this will ever get settled unless one kills the other. I know this sounds extreme, but it's the truth - if you don't separate them or rehome one, you're in for more and more expensive vet visits, at best. At worst, you're in for the death of one or both.

By the way, since this has happened before, there WAS a warning - the LAST time it happened was your warning, if you don't see this repeat occurrence as a loud and clear message that these girls cannot live in harmony, you're doing your dogs and yourself a great disservice, and are placing both dogs' health and possibly lives in serious jeaopardy.

[Miabella]

Originally posted by spidey
By the way, since this has happened before, there WAS a warning - the LAST time it happened was your warning, if you don't see this repeat occurrence as a loud and clear message that these girls cannot live in harmony, you're doing your dogs and yourself a great disservice, and are placing both dogs' health and possibly lives in serious jeaopardy.

I would guess that there were warnings even before any actual aggression occurred. Currently there is a bitch in my in-laws family who I will not allow Ilsa to come in contact with anymore. Neither is a bad dog or more to blame than the other, but I can see the signs that if allowed continued access to each other, there will be a fight soon. Up to this point, they have gotten along well and played with each other, but last time I saw some posturing and intensity at the end of the day from both of them. I won't take the chance.

[spidey]

I would guess that there were warnings even before any actual aggression occurred.

I'm sure you're right. This is not a pleasant situation to be in, I know, but if Vivianne needed more warning than just posturing and vocalizing, she's had two serious, and escalating, warnings now.

[brunie's mom]

I think you are going to have to seriously think of keeping your females seperated all of the time:( or even placing one in another home.
Bitches have very good memories and do not forget.

Someone I know came home to find a bloody mess...one female was dead in the bathroom....the other female she took straight to the vets to be PTS. She could not face keeping the female that did the killing.
These dogs had been together for awhile....but were close in age.

In rescue...we would never place same sex dogs together....it's just not worth it.

Gina

[chivas]

As one who has been in this situation, I can tell you that you CAN seperate them and have harmony but it IS tough.
We got Chivas as a 9 week old pup, when she was 3, we got Roxie (she was around 4ish and hadnt had a good life). They got along fine for about 3 years then the fights started and got bad FAST. Rehoming Roxie was not an option as she was terrified of men, we just kept them seperated. And it was hard, but made somewhat easier because we made Roxie a mostly outdoor dog. We were lucky in having a heated garage and put in fans in the summer but we made sure we spent time with her every day and let her in the house with us as often as possible.
I dont know your situation but rehoming 1 may be the only option unless you can do what we did and we did it for 5 years.
Kim

[Vivianne]

I did address the issue when the first fight occurred between them. It was a week after I and Madison moved in with Mia and her family. The trainer suggested doing everything for the dominant dog first. Such as who eats first, who gets greeted first, who gets treats first, etc. These were followed by all members of the family. Everything was going fine between them until yesterday; it had been 4 months since the first fight.

So what some of you are saying is that a behaviorist won’t work in this situation. Simply giving up and re-homing one of them is my only option. I can’t accept attaching human emotion to why these dogs are going to kill each other, i.e. grudges, as a reason for their not getting along, but I can accept that dominance or fear aggression can be the underlying factors for their incompatibility.

You have come to the re-homing conclusion because you do not know the dogs. It is unfortunate that these two do not get along, but I will try a behaviorist for Mia, and keeping them separate. I believe that because Mia has had issues with dogs in the past re-homing is not the answer for her, but more training is.

[brunie's mom]

Originally posted by Vivianne


You have come to the re-homing conclusion because you do not know the dogs. It is unfortunate that these two do not get along, but I will try a behaviorist for Mia, and keeping them separate. I believe that because Mia has had issues with dogs in the past re-homing is not the answer for her, but more training is.

Sometimes all the training in the world and good advise from a behaviourist is not enough.
You must be prepared for the worst case situation.:( To keep them seperated for the rest of their life.
You must keep them safe.

Gina

[frontierrots]

It has been my experience (18 years in Rottweilers, lifetime in dogs) that once dogs have a serious fight that there is no chance of harmony between the two.

Sometimes you can allow interaction between them if you are present so that at the first sign of posturing (provided you can read your dogs correctly) you can yell at them and providing they respect you enough to listen and provided they don't HATE each other so much that respect for you is outweighed by hate for each other

I however have not had that luxury.

I have 2 girls right now that would dearly love to beat up the other girls. 1 is a 16+ year old Lab mix who must go out to play alone or with people and the other is a 9+ year old Rott who was perfectly fine with the family group until she was 4 years old. Then she started in on her mother with increasing severity which then spilled over to the youngest fm. She now goes out with just one male and they get along fine.

I had two fm Shibas just 4 weeks apart in age and they lived and slept together as one until they were 3 years old when they had a big bloody blowout on Thanksgiving morning. They could never even be crated side by side ever again :(

Boys fight to make a point but bitches fight for keeps. Keep that in mind :(

[spidey]

I can’t accept attaching human emotion to why these dogs are going to kill each other, i.e. grudges, as a reason for their not getting along, but I can accept that dominance or fear aggression can be the underlying factors for their incompatibility.

I agree with you about not attaching human emotions, however, the fact is that bitches who decide for whatever reason that they don't get along with each other can almost never get along with each other. It's not attaching human emotions, it's just a fact about same-sex, similar-age dogs, there is often a problem in situations like this and all the training in the world won't make them safe if they've really got it in for each other (training may help you control them, but even then, when bitches especially get a real hatred for each other going, they tend to "go deaf"). If you decide to separate them, it has to be 100% with no exceptions - after you start separating dogs like this their stress levels about the other dog tend to increase and you may find that the "big battle" that has been building up to now will happen right away if they're allowed to be together. This happened with the males I had, and thankfully they were both much smaller dogs than Rottweilers or the damage would have been worse than it was because we would have been unable to separate them. As it was one ended up at the emergency clinic. Training is never a bad idea but you cannot train something like this away, 100% separation is almost always the only safe course of action.

[lblax]

Originally posted by Vivianne
I did address the issue when the first fight occurred between them. It was a week after I and Madison moved in with Mia and her family. The trainer suggested doing everything for the dominant dog first. Such as who eats first, who gets greeted first, who gets treats first, etc. These were followed by all members of the family. Everything was going fine between them until yesterday; it had been 4 months since the first fight.

.

thats absurd!!!!! nothing like patting the dominate bitch on the back and slapping her ^5's... you have 2 same sex dogs the same age and evidently niether one of them is low in pack ranking drive it will get worse

[RottiMomCT]

But how do you know which bitch is the dominant one?

Having had to break up fights between a female foster dog and our now deceased (due to cancer, not from a fight) female, it is now a situaiton I want to ever be in again.

After the first incident, I made it clear that NOBODY was to handle the foster dog except myself and my hubby. Well, dear mom in law felt bad for foster girl and decided to take her out for a quick walk and potty break. She LEANED the gate against the walls to block the stairs and opened the crate...both dogs went for each other, and she was damn lucky the other 4 dogs in the house didn't join in! I came home to a bloody mess inthe hall, one dog locked in the bathroom, the other in the bedroom and mom in law having a panic attack...

Of course, once all of the dogs were deemed safe and the injured parties headed to the vet, mom in law was read the riot act...but that's another story...

Our dog lost a canine tooth- root and all! Both dogs needed about $300 in 'repairs' and it was not a pretty sight seeing the drains and sutures all over both dogs faces, head and chests.

You have to be super careful about your two females....EVERYONE must know they can NEVER be together, even for a minute, probably even on leashes they'd be trying to get to each other. One slip up, one time forgetting to close a door, and the dogs could seriously injure themselves or someone...

I urge you to consult a behaviorist with experience in this situation, as well as the advice of a trainer who has experience in this...and TAKE THEIR ADVICE AND RECOMMENDATIONS seriously, for YOUR safety.

[Carina43]

Vivianne, we live with two males who will never, ever get along. And yes, we tried the desensitizing, the training, the behaviourists, etc. No go. These dogs will go through windows to get at each other. Our house has little barricades all over the place, we have signs hanging by the door to alert the other about which dog is where - honestly, it's like living under seige and it is a HUGE pain in the butt. We've got a pretty good routine down but it is far from ideal.

I know everyone says that bitches are worse - but I pretty much live in a low level state of stress about Cooper & Dutch coming f2f - don't take this lightly! I also had a very bad experience with a foster dog and my resident female dogs, years ago - my fault, I did not realise how awful it could be. Thankfully no dog killed, but I relate to coming home to blood everywhere, panicky trip to the ER, stitches & drains & stressing about the possibility that one dog could have been blinded (she wasn't.)

Early on before we got into a good routine, we had three fights with Cooper & Dutch - relatively minor damage, but very scary. Twice we were both home and got them apart pretty quickly. Once I was home alone and at one point was trying to break the lock they had on each other with a broom handle - they were in the house. I managed to get them seperated by throwing a quilt over their heads and when they broke I dragged Cooper outside while Dutch was still trying to shake free of the quilt - I was starting to run out of options at that point and was about to call 911!

Luckily (I guess) no vet trips, but the buckle on Cooper's collar is bent in half from that last fight, and he lost one of his little lower front teeth in the last fight.

Don't take this lightly.