bone cancer again

[nicodew]

We just got the devastating news that our 6 1/2 male "Dewey" has bone cancer. We could not be more upset as we just lost his litter mate "Nico" in Feb to osteosaccoma.

We had three vets (including an oncologist) confirm via xray that it is cancer, but they still encouraged us to do a biopsy. To make a long story short we cancelled the biopsy appt. after finding out many vets are now refusing to do them because1- they yeild false positives, 2-they also can break the leg because a core section of bone is taken out. Well, our Dew already has a fracture(which is what took us to the vet in the first place)

I know in my heart we are doing the right thing by not putting him through a test that may make him worse. We have also done soul searching and decided NOT to amputate or do chemo, just rebecause I have yet yo hear a good outcome and mainly regrets of the treatments.

Our questionsare 1- if anyone has had any luckwith natural remedies such as cod liver oil, an 2- if anyone out there has had a dog with the other bone related cancer, chrondrosarcoma?

[frontierrots]

Irish Wolfhound people have been doing a good sized study with their breed and the drug Fosamax (a human osteoporosis med) and it is helping a great deal with improving bone density

[RottiMomCT]

nicodew - my heart and prayers go out to you and Dewey. I am going through the same thing here. We have a 9-10 yr old bitch who was diagnosed with osteosarcoma on May 1st. It was in her right front leg. Being that she was, at the time, about 20 pounds overweight and a very sedentary dog, it was thought that amputation was not a good thing. Well, the vet gave her less than 3 weeks without chemo or amputation (just pain mangement). The vet also said a biopsy was a painful procedure that would prove what they already knew. Three vets saw her x-rays and said if we did a biopsy and it wasn't cancer they'd be very surprised.

Well, my stubborn father in law decided to go for amputation and then pain management, his reason being he wanted HER to enjoy the summer. Chemo was out due to financial reasons as well as her general health at the time of diagnosis.

OK, fast forward to May 8th. Leg is amputated, everyone goes to visit her at the vet and first sight is, to say the least, a huge shock. But she is up and about less than 12 hours after surgery, adjusting well to being a tripod (better than we did!).

She came home on May 10th, and within 3-4 days was negotiating the stairs like a champ. She went to the vet 2 weeks after surgery for staple removal and checkup for a hot spot that had developed from scratching near the incision. She weighed 94.5 pounds. Staples stayed in another week and she was weighed again...89 pounds. We got a bit nervous as she had lost 5 pounds in a week, but it was noticed that her energy level is way up. and her willingness to actually walk arounf the yard is much more than it previously was.

We believe her weigh loss was because she felt better and she actually IS getting more exercise (I walk her up and down the street once a day - less than 1/2 a mile). She will get x-rays of her lungs and abdomen at the end of June to see if the cancer has spread.

Her latest feat - getting on the SOFA! She puts her remaining front leg on the sofa and jumps up. To get off, she scooches around until her font leg is on the floor and then slides/hops off.

Sadly, we know her time with us is numbered - osteosarcoma is almost always fatal...I haven't met a person yet not affected by this disease who owns/owned a rottie. We will cherish the time we have with her and when her time comes, the vet has agreed to come to the house so she can go to the bridge in a familiar place, surrounded by her family-human and canine.

I don't know of the benefits of cod liver oil for cancers, but it will give the dogs a nice shiny coat...I give it every day. We have our old girl (affectionately re-named Eileen!) on a premium food, and she gets Glucosamin/Chondroitin to help the remaining limbs.

For now, we have a goal...the end of June. She has a BBQ to attend!!

My thoughts and prayers are with you...{hugs}...you can get through this...

[nicodew]

RottiemomCT,
Thanks for your thoughts. I often wonder if we should amputate, I guess it is hard either way with the same outcome eventually.
Our female"Nico" lived 3 months after diagnosis, the tumor grew to the size of a grapefruit! She was in so much pain even on piroxicam and 3 vicodan and it had spread to her lungs. She was not getting up more than a couple times a day, but still full of spirit, as the day we put her down, she was eating treats and kissing the office cat at the vet.
To complicate matters, I am 6 months pregnant with our first child and am afraid that amputation may buy him just the time to have to let him go at our delivery time. I don't know if he will do as well with the broken leg. we just want to spend as much time focused on him as we can. Good luck with the xrays, keep me posted, and you will be in my thoughts.
Dewey's mom

[Judi W]

Originally posted by RottiMomCT
...I haven't met a person yet not affected by this disease who owns/owned a rottie.

Well, meet at least one and I know many others. I have owned Rottweilers since 1971. Doesn't mean that I might not experience it, but does mean that it is not a given with this breed.

[My3Rotties]

Nicodew sorry to hear about your baby :( it's a very sad thing. In July 02 I had to put my 8 yr. old girl Mercedez down due to bone cancer on her left hing leg. She was diagnosed in March and in July we had to make the tough choice of putting her down. the tumor had grown also to the size of a grapefruit and she wasn't happy anymore..didn't want to eat anymore...didn't want to get up any longer or even eat her favorite treats. We thought of amputation also, but my friend who is the vet told me that she wouldn't do good on 3 legs since she was a big girl(not fat) and that was just prolonging it by a few months. We opted then not to do it just for her and we didn't want to be selfish in just doing it too keep her alive for a few months. So, July we put her down. It's a really tough decision and specially when they are your furkids and you love them so much. Good Luck and sorry again to hear about the baby. Go, by what your heart tell you and that will be your decision.

[Judi W]

I don't believe anyone has to defend or justify not amputating their dog's leg with this disease. This is an extremely painful disease and the dog absolutely should be given pain meds to any and all extent that they can in order to make their dog comfortable. Pain relief until the quality of life no longer shows in the dog's eyes is a perfectly responsible and loving thing. We love our dogs so much that often desperate measures are taken, but not all desperate measures are done for the benefit of the dog, but often times for self benefit. Those of you who love and care for your dogs, and not electing to surgery or extreme measures but letting them live their last times with dignity do not have to apologize for that to others, themselves or to their dog. A loving owner thinks of the dog first and you are doing that. We owe these wonderful friends the courage to know when to say good by and we remember them always.

[nicodew]

My3Rotties and Judi W,

Thanks for your words, I know we are doing the right thing, but it really helps to hear things like you have both said. We love Dew so much, and I don't know if he would understand losing a limb.

I love this breed sooooo much as Dewey will be the 5th one I will have lost over the past 15 years. they seem to have more health problems then they used to, but could we really get a different breed afterknowing how great these guys are?
Nicodew

[mmgy]

Our Rocky had chondrosarcoma, it was his second in a series of three cancers. It was a growth on his rib, right under his arm, and they were able to remove the section of rib. Rocky (08-00) and his sister Delilah (2 months ago) both died of cancer, but I feel like stepped-up nutrition plans were very successful for us. At the very least, it kept their general health good, and in my mind that enables them to fight cancer better.

Among others, here's a thread where I and some others talked about what we had used for cancer dogs:

http://www.rottweiler.net/forums/sho...cancer+delilah

Hope this helps a bit. Good luck with both your babies.

[Rottlva]

I am very sorry to hear of your boy's cancer. I can't emphasize enough quality verses quantity. Give him a bum rub for me. :(

[chivas]

I am sorry to hear about your dog.
I lost my Chivas to osteosarcoma on Aug 29, 2002.
I treated her holistically with tradional pain relief (piroxicam - rimadyl does NOT work for this type of pain).
She was given one month to live at diagnosis yet lived on another 5 months. The majority of the time she had left was VERY good, so good in fact; even though her tumor was the size of a naval orange, she still felt well enough to run after a squirell and pull her ACL.
I can tell you what I did for her. I had an holistic vet, her reg vet and several drs (both human and animal) help me with her.
I TRUELY believe what I did helped, since most dogs (not the ones who have amputation) dont seem to live more then 6-8 weeks after diagnosis. Chivas was 2 months shy of her 11th birthday when she left me, and probably had the cancer for 10 months.
You can email me if you would like me to tell you what we did for her.

My Prayers are with you..... Ive been there.
Kim

[Beckysmom]

I am sorry to hear about your dogs. :(

I was looking into natural remedies etc. about 8 months ago. I was impressed by some of the reports on hoxsey boneset... as having apparently increased the incidence of "spontaneous remission" for osteosarcoma--which could mean it is actually doing something, though local natural type vet was less optimisitic about any actual prolongation of life, she said she did think it seemed to make the dogs more comfortable and reduce fractures...which might be a benefit of the boneset alone. (I got some and didn't get a chance to use it much... if you wanted to try it, might be able to work out sending you what I have--very important with that or the Fosmax ??? stuff apparently to not allow trauma or injury during the treatment, I have heard.)

Now though my first thought would be first and immediately to try the clinic of either Martin or Robert Goldstein DVMs and see if they can offer anything. I don't have number for that offhand, but try websearch or 800 information. If you can't find it and want it, I'll try to find it for you. They are having a lot of success with treating cancer in dogs... but even they say that osteosarcoma is the hardest to treat and the most likely to mean death is not far off.

If you get told to go with prednisone... look up my previous post on prednisone as a warning...I don't want to go back there in my mind again.

I also made choice to not either amputate or do biopsy. It was what it was at that point.

Mine never reached the give up point until minutes before she died...and that too was difficult--to see her fighting for her life even when she was clearly dying, as much as to see a dog where the light has gone out of its eyes.. Spend what time you can with your dog...there are no good answers to osteosarcoma. If something were likely to give a 5 or even 2 or 1 year survival that would make decisions easier. But just think about what is best (least bad) for your own dog. No one else knows that dog as well as you do. Certainly not the vets. BTW from what I read Most spontaneous remission cases seem to have had owners who did not give up hope...but it is hard to do.

One thing I would do differently if I were to face the same again--pray not-- is spend less time looking for possible help, whether natural remedy, conventional, whatever, and more time just being with the dog... Also I had almost no pictures of her (a lack I have been making up for in my new dog's case, much to his annoyance), I wish I had snapped some in that last month of her life.



So sorry to hear about your dogs, give the still living one a hug from me too.

[nicodew]

Kate,

I took notes on your suggestions, and yes, I to believe the best thing we can do is spend quality time together. Because he is still recovering from the fracture, we can't do much, but I take him with me (and his bed) to do yard work, car rides, and just hang out with him every second I can. We are continuing to take photos with him and all the friends of ours that come and visit, he loves visitors!

I'm curious, did you get another Rottweiler? It would be so hard to choose anotherer breed, but my mom did after she lost her last Rottie.

Thanks again, Dewey's mom

[Beckysmom]

Yes. I got another rottie.

Almost immediately after my Girl died I put her things into a box marked "new dog" rather than be mementos of dead dog. And I started looking to take on a rottweiler rescue as top choice (and what happened), or possibly to get a new puppy. A lot of people questioned the speed with which I went from the one dog dying to getting a new dog. It was the right thing for me. That too is a very personal judgement about oneself.

I was fortunate that the dog who came was a huge bundle of energy, and even his tremendous difficulties (as a rescue dog who was virtually feral, had obvious past abuse, "issues" etc. ) banished to a large measure the ghost of the former dog (there was not time to dwell on that for one thing), filled the death space with abundant life...

And I too had two animal losses in short time. The only cat with whom I have ever strongly bonded, since I am more a dog person than cat person, died not long after the dog did. My new boy chased away those cat ghosts too... But a difficult rescue is for sure not for everyone...and I can't even begin to imagine handling my particular rescue dog with a newborn at same time. It would be a disaster IMO.

I am sticking with rotties by and large as "my" breed though there are a few others that interest me, or that I have had in past and might go back to.

Another controversial subject, but if you find and read the book by Martin Goldstein, DVM it suggests a link between the extra amount of parvo vaccine given to rotties and their high rate of osteosarcoma. As my rescue was already past the main time when parvo is likely, I elected not to vaccinate him against that. I know there are plenty of people who have done the full parvo vaccine regimen and never had an osteosarcoma problem...but that is very small samples that any one owner or even vet has ... it appears that the larger overall statistics do show a strong correllation. Not necessarily a proven cause, but enough to give me pause.

BostonRott, (Gretchen Caldwell) and Sharon Marples had some posts here about less frequent vaccine schedules now in use.

[RottiMomCT]

Originally posted by Judi W
Well, meet at least one and I know many others. I have owned Rottweilers since 1971. Doesn't mean that I might not experience it, but does mean that it is not a given with this breed.

I was also including those people who KNOW people whose rotties have been affected, not saying ALL rotties get it, but almost ALL rotties owners I've met know someone whose rottie has been affected.