Incontinence

[MacyKach]

Macy is only three and has just been diagnosed as incontinent. Does anyone have any experience with this? The medication that the vet put her on is called Phenylpropanolamine 50 mg up to 3 times a day. I'm so sad for her, but happy for my bed and carpet.

[chivas]

Yep, My Chivas had that and she was put on same thing. After a few months of taking it - she was taken off and never had to use it again. It helps with the smooth muscles. Dont use DES though - too many bad things are connected to it.
Kim

[MacyKach]

Thanks for the reply. I hope to not have Macy on the meds long as she doesn't really enjoy taking them.

Thanks!
Macy's Mom

[MARYDVM]

Have to strongly disagree about DES. Used at the standard dosage of 1 mg once a week it has virtually no side effects to be concerned about. It is simply replacing the low level of estrogen normal to a female dog which is lost when the animal is spayed. It is much more convenient than pills three times a day, and often works when PP will not. The final option is ephedrine sulfate, a drug from the past that was unavailable for a number of years because it was used as an ingredient for homemade speed. It's back on the market now, and will control serious incontinence where DES and PP fail.

[MacyKach]

Very interesting.......Is there a reason that our vet prescribed PP? Macy is 3 years old with 2 TPLO's, she weighs 108lbs and is just now getting active again. Her last TPLO was on 1/26/03.

Thanks!

[chivas]

this is why DES scares me and my vet even suggested NOT to use it.
\Side Effects
• The most serious side effect of estrogen therapy is bone marrow suppression and toxicity that may progress to a fatal aplastic anemia. Estrogen toxicity manifests itself first by a leucocytosis, followed by bone marrow depression with anemia, thrombocytopenia, and leukopenia. Blood dyscrasias and changes in the peripheral blood smear may be evident by 2 weeks. Although this serious adverse effect is more common after large or repeated doses, it may occur at the recommended dose. Side effects are more common in older animals. Because of the potential toxic side effects of estrogen use, it is always important to use the lowest effective dose for the shortest period of time.

• Other side effects include signs of estrus, lethargy, diarrhea, vomiting, vaginal discharge, pyometra, polydypsia, polyuria, and feminization of male dogs.

Precautions

[MARYDVM]

It's basically a personal preference. Oldtimers like me have used DES for 20 years, before PP became well known. Also, DES can only be purchased from a compounding pharmacy so it is not as convenient to dispense as a more easily available drug. Whatever works for the individual dog is fine. I have seen some poor results with PP in the past, so I usually don't even try it on my patients.

[MacyKach]

sounds like PP is the middle of the road than???????? How long will it be before we see the affectiveness of PP? Macy started on 4/29/03

Thanks for all the useful info

[chivas]

I saw a definite improvement in Chivas within 2 weeks. Total control in about 5 weeks. I dont know if that is median or what, just how it worked for her!

[MARYDVM]

Yes, all those possible side effects are in the books. And I'm sure that a lot of younger vets have been indoctrinated to fear DES. However, the actual incidence of any of those conditions with a 1 mg weekly dose is virtually non-existent. The fact that pyometra and male feminization are listed as side effects indicate the level of practical experience of the author - DES is only given to spayed bitches.

Over 300 people a year die from reactions to over the counter NSAIDS. You are much more likely to get in trouble from taking a pill for your headache than your dog is from taking DES for incontinence.

[chivas]

Probably so, Mary. I went with what my vet thought but i wouldnt say he is young! LOL Graduated Auburn in 72! He just thought PP was the best way to go and it worked well on my dog. And i was leery about the side effects of DES. And luckily she didnt have to take it long - worked well on her.
I think the author was just saying in animal studies, I didnt post the whole page.

[Anne]

I had one of my GSD's on DES. Intermittently as we would start with the regular dose and then decrease until the problem subsided. A couple of times in her life the problem arose again and we went down the same path. She had no side effects whatsoever and lived to be 14 1/2 years old.

[samanthac]

ProPan is a lifesaver for us as well. Athena has been incontinent as long as we've had her.

[Judi W]

Originally posted by samanthac
ProPan is a lifesaver for us as well. Athena has been incontinent as long as we've had her.

ProPlan is a food, not a script.

[samanthac]

Originally posted by Judi W
ProPlan is a food, not a script.

Yes, you are quite correct ProPLAN is a dog food made by Purina and sold in pet stores.

However, ProPAN, which is what I typed, is short for Phenylpropanolamine, which is the scrip that I have given Athena for her incontinence for the last 4 years!

:D