Merlin not able to raise front end

[kaylynn143]

Merlin has been crying everytime he raises his front end off the ground. He is walking and trotting with out apparent pain, but when he goes up the stairs or tries to get on the couch, he cries out like he hurts. Has anyone else had this type of problem?

I took him to the vet this morning and he will be going through a gambot of tests. They are testing him for Lyme disease and a full blood work up since he has lost 10 pounds since his last visit in October (now only 84.4 pounds). He will also have hips and knees xrays done to check for displaxia and acl problems.

[moondog]

Maybe it's an elbow problem?

[Judi W]

I would also make sure they check the spinal area.

[Judy Chrusch]

How long do you have to wait for the lyme results bc if it is that each day will get worse:( . If it goes too long I'd ask for antibiotics and start them ASAP. It can't hurt even if it isn't lyme but if it is you'll see a big difference in a few days. Keep a close watch on him and if he worsens please get him to a vet. What are the chances it could be lyme and have you seen ticks on him? Sorry for all the questions but I want what's best for your boy and if this came out of nowhere then chances are it may be lyme:( . After hearing you describe the symptoms that's what I thought of right away. Please keep us posted and I hope and pray he gets relief soon bc the joints swell and they run a fever with lyme and it can be very painful. Have you taken his temp?

One other question, has he had the lyme vaccine????

Judy

[Skip]

If the first vet doesn't find the cause, take the dog to a good specialist. When my boy started limping, my regular vet took a lot of x-rays and couldn't find anything. I took him to a very good bone specialist and he found a small bone chip in his elbow. Don't give up if the dog continues to show problems.

[kaylynn143]

Just got the inital diagnosis from the vet.

The heartworm/lyme test came back negative! :)
He is running a slight tempeture of 102.4 degrees, so she thinks there might still be some kind of infection going on. I have not vacinated for Lymes. Seriously thinking about adding that to our set of shots.

The blood results came back basically good. She is concerned because his mature white blood cells are at 44% and his Lymphosite cells (another type of white blood cell?) are also at 44%. Which apparently could be another idicator of a bacteria or parasite infection going on.

His urine test came back with 'good concentration', but very akloine (sp?) at 8.5. She was concerned about what I feed him.
I feed Canidae (she had never heard of it) but I an unsure about how acidic (sp?) it is. I will try and contact the manufacturer since my untrained eye couldn't figure out where to look for how acidic the ingredients are. She is suggesting (after contacting Canidea) switching him to Iam or Eukenuba. If switching food is needed, I will need to do a lot more research since Merlin's coat is so much better since I took him off Iams. Any suggestions?

The bad news is that Merlin has hip displasia. :( She rated his left hip as 'fair', but there is abnormal motion in the left hip and knee. She rated his right hip as 'very' displastic. She is having another doctor look at his xrays today. I just bought a bike, still waiting on the springer attachement to come in, so I could exercise the dogs better. Walks with me are just that, walks not real exercise for anyone but me. ;) Would trotting (not running) him be good for him or would it make his displasia worse?

Merlin has lost 10 pounds since his last visit, she is suggesting worming him even though the test was negative. Is this unheard of or would it be a good idea to worm everyone?

Thanks! Just posting this makes me a bit less stresses and paranoid.

[JeanT]

Don't change from Canidae (especially since it has been good for his coat) ! It is not the dog food that is increasing the alkalinity. Dog food is not causing abnormal blood studies. Dog food is not causing pain.

Was he tested for Erlichia? Addison's Disease? What is his renal function? Liver function?

I think a 10 pound weight loss over a 6 month period is significant, especially with abnormal labs and pain. I am surprised your vet is not *very* concerned.

Frankly, your vet sounds clueless, and your dog sounds like he is going downhill fast. He is wasting away, in pain, and your vet wants to change to low quality dog food? Are you seriously considering paying for more advice from this person?

[moondog]

While I agree that "downgrading" the quality of the diet is not the best move, I do question whether dog food has nothing to do with test results. It seems to me that the body's ability or inablility to process what the dog eats could impact test results. Is he thin? Pain could impact his appetite, too. Is he eating less during the past 6 months?

So far is sounds to me like this vet is making an effort to eliminate some possible causes by starting with the most obvious and easily remedied, does it not? Sounds like a sensible approach.

As far as the hips go, does the vet think that is what is causing his pain? Swimming is a great way to help keep muscles toned in a dog with joint problems without putting too much stress on them. I'm thinking biking him might be too much exercise for those hips and that consistent walking and/or swimming may be a better choice. And there's always ADEQUAN.....the best stuff since sliced bread. Do a search here and you'll see our thoughts on it.

I hope you find out what the temp is from and can get that resolved. :)

[Canesmom]

I hope your boy gets better soon. I just had to say something about the food thing. My vet was skeptical about Canidae becuase she had never heard of it and she reccomended Science Diet. Well, I printed out the ingredients in Canidae, Royal Canine Natures Blend and Science Diet and asked her to read all the ingredients and then tell me WHY Science Diet is better. Guess what.........she couldn't. I'm not sure about Iams but Eukanuba isn't too much better than Science Diet. I wouldn't stop feeding Canidae if I were you. Do what I did and ask your vet why, after reading the ingredients, are those better than Canidae!!!!!

[kaylynn143]

Thanks for the feedback.

Before I would switch Merlin from Canidae I would have to do A LOT of research and try to find a different better quality food than Iams etc.

Since the vet had never heard of Canidae before she suggested checking with the manufacturer regarding the acid vs. alkoline effect. Haven't heard anything from them yet.

At this point I think the vet is trying to eliminate things that might be causing Merlin pain and the weight lose.

Merlin is on the thin side. He is still almost 20 pounds heavier than when I adopted him (he looked like a skeleton dog then), but I have been trying to put some more weight on him since I think he is a bit too thin for his height. I thought that he would weigh in a bit over 100 pounds. I was very surprised that he had lost so much weight. His appetiete is very good... if it is offered he will eat it and ask for more. I am very concerned about his weight going down. For the past 2 or 3 months I have boosted the amount of food that he gets, trying to fill him out a bit.

I will be talking to the vet in much more depth tonight when I pick Merlin up after work.

I think the vet sees three diffferent issues going on here:

1. The pain coming from the hip displasia and abnormal hip and knee movement. (Possibly treated with Rimadyl)

2. Too alkaline urine from the food (I question that one)

3. Weight loss and strange white blood results coming from some sort of infection (worms?)

I will find more out tonight.

Canesmom - I have all my 'documents' printed and ready to show her. :)

Please keep the suggestions and opinions coming! I am learning a lot and that can only help me be a better dog 'owner'.
:D

[mmgy]

In what sense does she think the food is "acidic"? I have some Canidae stats that are not posted on the website, if you can tell me what to look for.

[kaylynn143]

mmgy-

I am not sure what exactly I am looking for in regards to the food ingredients.

She did mention that citris based foods (oranges, tomatoes, etc) are acidic and will counter act the alcoline content of Merlin's urine.

I have been looking for something to stop the yellow spots in the yard, but I have never even thought of getting this deep into it.

I will give her my print outs of Canidae's ingredients and ask more questions about it.

[Sharon Marples]

Something else to consider....

If his blood counts are not up to par right now, please reconsider alternatives before using Rimadyl which is a drug that can have adverse effects on some dog's liver and kidney functions.

Do a search in the archives, you will find pro and con on Rimadyl but there are many (myself included) that will never touch the stuff because of first hand experiences in deaths of dogs due to the use of Rimadyl.

Again, as with the food, education is the best tool. Print out all you can about the Rimadyl, educate yourself with its pros and cons and then take the material with you to discuss with your vet.

As Moondog mentioned, Adequan is an excellent product for HD. You can also do a search on it.

Good luck and keep us posted on his progress, wishing you the best for him.

Sharon Marples

[JeanT]

If the only test that is off was the urine acidity/alkalinity, then maybe it would be reasonable to consider whether diet might predispose him to kidney stones. Maybe it would be reasonable to think "prevention" in an otherwise healthy dog. Some breeds are more likely to develop kidney stones than others (Dalmatians, for one).

But losing ten pounds in six months when he is already thin - and the abnormal white count (were liver function and BUN and electrolytes tested ?) and pain in his front end (as Judy W suggested, was his spine checked?) - I think that warrants a lot of concern, and not about diet. There's never anything wrong with being aware of diet, but diet doesn't explain any of the other abnormalities.

Erlichia is just as deadly as Lyme's. I did not see that testing was done for Erlichia. Or Addison's, though that is more rare. Both of those can cause alkalinity. And Erlichia can cause "arthritis" symptoms.

I don't know how old Merlin is. I've made it a practice to get a full chem screen (CBC, electrolytes, BUN, liver function) and thyroid to start with on my recycled dogs to have a baseline (and possibly identify a non-symptomatic problem) . Many vets suggest this for geriatiric dogs, but I think it is a good idea for any age.

I know I worry too much, and Merlin is probably going to be just fine; I just would want my vet to be thinking of eliminating from the diagnosis all of the life-threatening problems first, and fast. Nothing wrong with mentioning diet, but that is not going to explain the labs or the pain.

[rottlove]

To address your exercise query, I wouldn't trot him on a bike but instead take him swimming (low impact) and walk him up inclines (builds the haunches). Of course check with your vet about it as well. Good luck...

: )