old dogs and weight loss

[mmgy]

I've been thinking about my old dogs, and wondering if there's some sort of accepted standard about old dogs losing weight. I'm not asking about extenuating circumstances, but just getting old.

For instance, my mixed shepherd that weighed 100 lb. during his young adult life (age 2-10) only weighed 75 lb. when he died at almost 15.

Currently my old hound who always weighed about 60 lb., weighs about 48 lb., and we can't make him gain an ounce. He eats like a pig(as much as a 60 lb. dog), and is 14 1/2.

These would be extreme weight losses for younger dogs. Is there a percentage of weight loss that should concern me, or should I just chalk it up to decreased muscle mass?

[spidey]

IME, in most cases decreased muscle mass and decreased appetite related to decreased energy are causes of weight loss in older animals (I also think that their systems become less efficient at absorbing nutrients). I do think that there's a point when an oldster is too thin, but I don't know that it's something I could put a number to.

Sometimes adding easily-digested things to the food can help make it more palatable (I'm of the (unscientific) opinion that taste and smell fade a bit for old animals (as they do for people), so they may eat less because they derive less pleasure from it - stronger smells and tastes can sometimes entice them - gravy and that sort of thing - warming the food can also help). Teeth can also be a factor - missing, loose or sore teeth make eating more difficult. I recommend flavouring and soaking dry food, and perhaps adding canned food to the diet. All my animals have lost muscle and weight when they reached their very senior years (one dog reached 17, and I've had three cats reach 20), I usually figure that if they're maintaining weight, they're doing very well, but that some muscle loss and boniness (especially around the spine, skull and hips) is to be expected. Forget about getting them to gain, it doesn't often happen, maintenance should be the goal, IMO. It happens to people, too.

Older animals are wonderful.

[mmgy]

Thanks spidey. I went through a lot of that with Delilah here recently. I am sure her taste and smell were compromised, and you may remember some of the smelly things I had to use to get her senses going every day! But with Homer that's not an issue. He eats everything in sight, and begs for more. I'm not necessarily trying to make him gain weight, I just don't know that I should let him lose more.

Does it sound right to you that he still eats according to his regular adult weight?

Originally posted by spidey
Older animals are wonderful.

Amen.

[pfoley]

Old dogs are like elderly people. They lose their appetite, and then start to fade.

[spidey]

Does it sound right to you that he still eats according to his regular adult weight?

If his bloodwork all checks out normally (have you had a geriatric screen done?), then I'd guess that if he's eating the same amount and losing weight it could be just that things just aren't working as efficiently as they used to (maybe try soaking it or adding some canned?). He may not be getting the same amount of net calories from the food - perhaps it's taking him more energy to eat and digest it? I'd maybe offer him more food, or add something calorie-dense and easily digested to it. Many old guys lose their appetites, so I'd be happy that he was still eating so well, and perhaps offer him even more.

[mmgy]

He had a complete blood panel last summer, and I plan to have another soon, just because of his age. He eats about 75% kibble and 25% prepared raw. Canned food for pill-taking. His poop looks like he's digesting properly. Brands we are currently using include Canidae, Prairie, Innova, Wellness, Evolve, Azmira, etc.

I guess I'm a little off of my own subject, because it wasn't my intent to write just about Homer. But I should include that he is still highly active. He's not graceful by any means, but he's moving.

He probably consumes the equivalent of 4 cups of kibble a day. He eats more than just about any dog I've ever owned.

[CarolineS]

Maggie is almost 9 years old which is starting to get up there for a Rottweiler. I noticed in the last year that the amount of food that has kept her slim and trim was now making her too thin. I make her food and she used to stay around 85 lbs on 1300 calories per day. She slowly lost about 5 pounds over the last year so I upped her food until she gained the 5 pounds back. She now needs to eat about 1700 calories per day to maintain this weight. I get twice yearly bloodwork and checkups for this girl and she is healthy.

I also made a bit of a change to her diet and have started to give her half her protein foods as eggs. These are the "perfect protein" and 100% of the protein in them can be utilized by a dog. Older animals need quality, easily-digestible sources of protein.

One thing I've noticed is that older dogs that are thin, but otherwise healthy, tend to stay around a lot longer than those that are obese. :)

[pfoley]

I agree; that is the same with people. My Rott is 7 years old and 80 lbs. She looks to be in perfect shape. I try to maintain that weight. The vet told me Rotts only live to be 11 years old; is this true??

[mmgy]

CarolineS, that's good to know. Somehow, with all my old dogs, this is the first that has required extra food just to maintain. Homer has been in excellent health and form his whole life, and we want that to continue.

I've asked this before in reference to Delilah and her cancer issues, but now with a healthier dog....how many eggs a week do you feed? Is one daily too much? I've considered eggs for him because of the utility, but was waiting till I was sure he had adjusted thoroughly to his new kibble/raw regimen.

Pfoley, I lost my Delilah April 10th, she was 12 3/4. I lost her brother Rocky at 10. Many people here have lost younger rotties. It's not so cut and dried as your vet says, but 11 is definitely considered old age.

[jessaroo]

Pfoley -
I've had 3 rotties go to the Bridge. One tragically died of cancer just before his 6th birthday; our first dog (considered to be large for the breed) was 12 yrs. old, and just 2 days ago I lost my little sweetie, and only female who would have been 13 next month.
I know some of you have mentioned feeding Canidae but I'm not familiar with that. The benefits? We've always fed Iams. Can't say that's the cause of their longevity but they've all done well considering.
I'm still looking thru the threads to find info on what I think caused my sweet girl to deteriorate so rapidly and if I don't find any I'll start a new thread. Of course I have lots of questions and need to hear from others who may have experienced the same thing.

[CarolineS]

Originally posted by mmgy
I've asked this before in reference to Delilah and her cancer issues, but now with a healthier dog....how many eggs a week do you feed? Is one daily too much? I've considered eggs for him because of the utility, but was waiting till I was sure he had adjusted thoroughly to his new kibble/raw regimen.

I feed four eggs a day to Maggie and two to Dresden along with their other protein sources. Dresden eats fattier meats so I don't feed her as many. Maggie is allergic to most meat and since she eats low fat fish, she gets more eggs. I don't feed a raw diet, I feed cooked. Raw eggs contain a substance in the white called avidin which inhibits the uptake of biotin. Apparently, though, the yolk contains more than enough biotin to make up for that if you do feed raw. If anyone is concerned, they can cook the white which destroys the avidin.

I think a lot of people stay away from feeding dogs a lot of eggs because they transpose their cholesterol fears for humans onto their dogs. Studies have shown that dogs are not affected by dietary cholesterol the same way humans are. Here's a quote from Canine and Feline Nutrition: A Resource for Companion Animal Professionals

Many people are aware of the relationship of dietary fat and cholesterol to the development of atherosclerosis and coronary artery disease in humans and of the importance of limiting these nutrients in their diet. In recent years, this knowledge has led some pet owners to apply these same nutritional principles to the diet of their companion animals. However, there exist some very basic differences between these species in the ways in which dietary fat is assimilated and metabolized. Unlike humans, dogs and cats are capable of consuming a wide range of dietary fat and still maintaining normal blood lipid levels. This is presumably because dogs and cats first evolved as carnivorous predators with a diet that normally contained a high proportion of animal fat. The capability to consume, digest and assimilate a high-fat diet has remained with these species throughout the domestication process...feeding a low fat diet to healthy pets with the intention of preventing hyperlipidemia and elevated cholesterol levels is unnecessary...the concerns that humans have with dietary lipids and heart disease do not apply to (healthy) companion animals.