Giving a correction with a chock collar?

[rocksmom]

My rottie is 4 years old and has been through one completed training course which only taught basic obedience. Our second trainer I quit going to because I didn't feel comfortable with the strength he used on the dog and the strength he expected me to use in the correction on the dog. I need advise from other Rottie lovers on how hard to correct? My dog would lock up on this guy. He was a football coach and a bully I thought. We've always tried to teach with love but the dog is running over me.

[RottnKid1]

What behaviors are you looking to correct? BTW, I applaud you for not being intimidated by a trainer and pulling your dog from a course that you felt was too harsh. Good for you!!!

[rocksmom]

I have found so much great information on the internet on Rotties and training. I'm trying to get this wonderful guy going in the right direction.

Rock is a very sweet dog. He loves to lick, paw you, lay and lean on you. He is also extremly pushy and prefers to do things his way.

I am not a great trainer but with Rock I've had to learn. We didn't know anything about Rotties when we got him. We thought if we raised him with love he'd be a sweet dog.

As you can imagine,I need to reinforce the basics (sit, down, stay, heel). He knows these but we have to tell him several times if we don't have him on a leash or have a treat. Heeling he is gradually pulling, so I need to give a correction. This is where the trainer & I didn't agree. He expected a very hard correction which I didn't feel was necessary. Actually, I was afraid that would make him mean if he were over corrected.

From other Rottwieler owners, how do you judge how hard to correct when you need to?

Other behavior problems...
stealing clothing, etc.
running over us in doorways
steps on feet
runs completely over the 10 lb dog

See, he's a good dog that hasn't had the right kind of training at home but I'm trying to get him on track.

[RottnKid1]

First, I want to compliment you on seeking out help. Unfortunately, many owners won't do that :(.

What kind of collar are you using on Rock? Is is a choke chain or a prong collar? As I've stated, I would prefer to go with a Halti first to see how hat works. Many people swear by the Gentle Leader, but my dogs prefer the Halti. The muzzlel strap remains loose unless they pull.

If you're using a choke chain, first you need to make sure that it's on correctly. You should hold the collar in front of you and form it into a "P." With the dog facing you, you slip it over his neck. This way, when you apply a correction, the chain will loosen up as soon as you release the pressure. A correction shoud be a quick, sharp tug on the lease, then release the pressure immediately. When I use a prong collar (also called a pinch collar), I make sure to attach the leash to both rings, though some people attach to only one ring. By hooking on to both rings, it's basically a self correcting tool. The dog begins to pull and the prongs apply an uncomfortable feeling. If you attach to only one ring, it's a prong and choke chain all in one. The collar tightens up and the prongs become even more uncomfortable. Some people will tell you to correct the dog severely enough to elicit a yelp, but I don't hold with that unless your dog is exhibiting behavior bad enough to warrant such a harsh correction. Yes, if you're going to apply a correction, you want it to be srong enough to get your dog's undivided attention and deter that behavior from happening again, but harshness to the point of borderline abuse has no place in training. From what you've described, Rock's problem on lead is pulling. Now you can try out the Halti or Gentle Leader and probably take care of the problem with one of those, or you can elect to stay with your choke chain. As I said, with a choke, you use a quick snap and release. It's always preferable to use far more praise than corrections. When Rock is walking close beside you, on your left side, with his front legs right next to yours, say "Hee" and immediately praise him. You use verbal praise only or verbal and a food reward. Training treats should be small and able to be eaten very quicly. The same principle should be used with a prong collar, though if a correction is needed with a prong, it must be done MUCH more gently. You would use the Halti in a very similar way. The bottom line is that you want your dog to want to please you out of love and respect, not out of fear. You'll end up having a much more reliable dog that way and the both of you will be happy.

As for your problems at home, you'll want to implement the "golden rules."

I've got a wicked migraine, so I apologize if I forget some, but your dog doesn't seem to have any aggression, so the rules I'm going to tell you about should suffice.

1. No free rides. Have Rock sit prior to be being given treats, meals and petting.

2. No furniture. He must be made to stay off furniture and beds.

3. Humans must precede him in or out the door - and he should only exit or enter after being given permission.

4. If Rock is in the way, don't step over him. Have him get up and move out of the way.

Since Rock really seems to be a good dog without any serious behavioral problems, the above rules should suffice. Stepping on feet will just take some time and learned commands along with some behavior changes on your part. First, I would try backing up a step, then turning your back on Rock and ignoring him for a minute. If you choose commands instead, choose the words you want to use (this is extremely important for ANY commands you use. The same commands must be used by everyone in the family or it'll cause Rock to be confused). For instance, when I want my dogs to lay down, I say down. If I want them to get their feet off of me or anything else, I say off. So, try that while either lifting your foot or pushing him back.

Stealing? First, try to make sure clothing is out of his reach. Has he been taught the command "out" - or drop it, give, whatever word you prefer t have him relase something? If not, teach him that. The "leave it" command also comes in very handy to have him leave something alone BEFORE he touches it.

Lastly, I'd find another good obedience course. This helps not only to train, but to socialize and stimulate both the mind and the body and best of all, creates a closer and more trusting bond between you and your dog. Best of luck and please keep us posted!!!

[RottnKid1]

That migraine was a real head-banger and my typing was atrocious! I just want to correct a couple of things. It's not hee, it's heel. And you don't use the Halti the same way as you use a prong collar - I meant that you should use it as GENTLY. A Halti will usually prevent the dog from pulling in the first place, but if Rock is stubborn, be sure not to yank his head around as it could cause injury. If he's REALLY stubborn, you can give it slight yank straight back.

There were two other things I neglected in my first post. First, don't repeat commands. If you're positive he knows what the command means, it shouldn't be said more than once. To get him on the right track, put him on his leash to give him commands (I'm guessing you mean sit, down, etc.?). Just think of it this way. You give him a command and he ignores it. Then you say it again and he complies. The next time, you end up having to say it three times - and so on and so on... He needs to respond the first time, even if it mean you place him into the position you want. As for him trampling over the little dog, that's a tough one. Rottweilers just don't seem to realize that they're big and strong. The best solution to that is working on your obedience training with Rock so he'll respond to your instructions.

[Sage McBage]

You state that your dog is sweet when he paws you, lays on you, and leans on you. I know that these things are all very cute and they seem like sweet gestures, but actually, your dog is displaying dominance over you!! If your dog feels he is alpha dog, then why should he listen to a lesser member of the "pack"? Make sure you let your dog know that YOU are alpha and the training may go a bit easier. You will also curb any developing agression problems towards you if you let him know you are alpha!

[WorkinDogz]

Originally posted by Sage McBage:
<STRONG>You state that your dog is sweet when he paws you, lays on you, and leans on you. I know that these things are all very cute and they seem like sweet gestures, but actually, your dog is displaying dominance over you!! If your dog feels he is alpha dog, then why should he listen to a lesser member of the "pack"? Make sure you let your dog know that YOU are alpha and the training may go a bit easier. You will also curb any developing agression problems towards you if you let him know you are alpha!</STRONG>

Very well put. :) I'd also like to add that ONE GOOD CORRECTION is worth more than a million naggy, do-nothing ones.

The dog still gradually pulls...the "lesser" corrections didn't do anything to change the behavior...therefore are ineffective.

Any correction given should prove to alter the behavior, not just for the *moment* but for good.

[RottnKid1]

Originally posted by Sage McBage:
<STRONG>You state that your dog is sweet when he paws you, lays on you, and leans on you. I know that these things are all very cute and they seem like sweet gestures, but actually, your dog is displaying dominance over you!! If your dog feels he is alpha dog, then why should he listen to a lesser member of the "pack"? Make sure you let your dog know that YOU are alpha and the training may go a bit easier. You will also curb any developing agression problems towards you if you let him know you are alpha!</STRONG>

Agreed - that's why the golden rules are important.

[rocksmom]

I would like to thank everyone for their advise. We've been using a choke chain but I will take a look at the halti. I'm obviously not aware of the golden rules. Could someone clarify. I'm not being ugly. It seems obvious to me now that all of my dogs think they are above me in the pack.