Treats or No Treats for Training

[RottQueen]

I wanted to ask you all whether you use(d) treats in your training methods. And the reason I'm asking is because I didn't use them for training my GSD; and the training book I'm reading (I'll have to check the author) she doesn't encourage treats in her training techniques.

How has this worked with your rott training? Is it truly a training preference or are results performed quicker with the use of treats?

I don't own a rott yet; I'm still researching the breed. But I've read a lot of threads where owners are using treats w/their rotts.

Thanks.

[TrinityRun]

The best thing to use is whatever works for the dog - whatever motivates them. Some work better for toys, others work better for food.

I would be reading several different books on training if I were you and follow the methods that you are comfortable with. In my opinion, Rottweiler do best with motivational techniques coupled with fair, clear discipline.

Hope this helps.

[damp]

Even I love my work, I am not sure I would have the same energy, joy and enthusiasm to work, if I was not paid.

Motivation and rewards have a dog to work with energy, joy and enthusiasm!

[moondog]

Hi RottQueen!

I haven't used treats with Luna except as a tool when I grind her nails, and I DO need them for this in order elicit her cooperation.

You know, it never really occurred to me when training her to use treats and it seems that the promise of play suits her just fine, but I have no doubt that had I used treats, they would have been just as effective. She must have just enough "monkey" in her to be satisfied with an opportunity for play so I guess I never really had a reason to use them. ;)

[Jamie & Odin]

I use treats with Odin. I am definately not a trainer, but I've found that he responds very well to positive reinforcement. However, my trainer said to vary the rewards used. So, I start out a new command using treats, then gradually intersperse praise, pets, belly rubs when he starts to get it down (which never takes long!)He needs very little forceful correction, more for behavior issues rather than in training. Things like jumping on people, nipping etc. needed a couple of strong corrections, which quickly solved the problem.

[JGulley]

What I've seen:
Owner: I don't want to train my dog with treats.
Trainer: Fine- have your dog sit. Here hold this cookie.

Owner: "Sit Fido, sit"

Dog doesn't budge

Owner gets fed up and uses the cookie. Dog sits. The dog has just been trained to ONLY sit for the food reward.

I'm very happy with the response I've gotten using food and then gradually decreasing it.

[Vicki]

Trainers who will not use food are trainers who do not understand reinforcement principles. You do NOT bribe the dog to please, please obey some command, you use the food as part of the positive reinforcement when the dog is learning. Once the dog has connected the behavior with the cue, you move on to random variable reinforcement.

Let me tell you a reinforcement story. Over 14 years ago, I tripped going out the front door, and sent M&Ms all over. Of course my puppy scooped up as many of these delightful items as she could. To THIS DAY, she still looks up when we go out the front door, just in case it is raining M&Ms.

[RottQueen]

Thanks for the replies.

I wanted to get an idea what others are using to train their rotts bc this would be my first. Although I think I did fairly well w/my GSD (she rec'd lots of verbal praises) but I've been wondering if training could have moved along quicker w/treats.

I'm also reading how I made some mistakes with praises as far as the timing of the praises for the command. I guess that's why we read, to learn!!

[moondog]

Originally posted by Vicki
To THIS DAY, she still looks up when we go out the front door, just in case it is raining M&Ms.

That is so cute! :D

[DogLover]

My personal experience with treat training was a disaster. My Rottweiler (Carl) already had basic training, and I was trying to teach him "watch" per instruction from the instructor.

First of all, you have to understand he is a VERY food motivated dog. He will do anything to try and get the treat. But, he was so concerned that another dog was going to get his treat, that he became very aggressive about it.

The instructor did absolutely nothing about it - pretty much ignored it. So, I found a different training club which does not train with treats and pretty much started all over with his training.

This is not to say that treats don't work for other dogs - but they do not work for all dogs.

[poohbearsmom]

With my dogs, I do use treats as motivation for the behavior I want from them. Once the behavior is established, I vary the frequency of the treats, and mix in toys.
My girl is EXTREMELY food motivated, and can get rather silly if the treat is too good! I find that I can generally use her plain kibble to keep her mind on task at home. At class, with distractions, we move up to hot dogs, or cooked chicken.
My boy, on the other hand is just as easily motivated by a ball, as he is by food. So, I use both.
Bottom line, I think we need to find what motivates each dog individually, and use it to our benefit. Just like Damp said, I like my job, but the paycheck keeps me going back.
I also keep the sessions short, (several 5 minute sessions throughout the day) and keep them wanting more. And, I generally end a short work session with play. A happy ending is a good ending.
Just my 2 cents.
Elisabeth

[WorkinDogz]

I guess my question would be what method are those who don't use food as a reward/motivator...what are you using?

Do you "pull up on the lead; push down on the butt" to teach sit??

Do you pull down on the lead; push down on the shoulders to teach down?

That's anything but motivational training. :(

A trainer; skilled in using food as a reward; not a lure....can and will lay a foundation.....which includes guiding the dog into any desired position; without the dog even being on lead and never having to touch the dog at all...no pushing, pulling or hand-on conflict. Yep..that's an untrained, unleashed dog.....being CONDITIONED in sit, down, stay and heel without having to do anything negative. The negative is withholding the reward. That's it.

Food is a reward for a job well done.....not a bribe to get the dog to do it.

[moondog]

Luna loves tennis balls.....they BOUNCE better than kibbles! :D

As for the nail grinding, a clear glass bowl of chicken tenders thoughtfully placed 24" from her nose while she lays on the carpet certainly sounds like a bribe to me.......but she doesn't get any until each nail is done. And then every other nail. And then every paw. If she pulls her paw away, she gets nothing until she allows the nail to be done. Would that be considered a bribe or a motivational tool? Or motivational bribery?