Just not in to working today....

[RottnKid1]

Originally posted by MrsBoats


Just so you have a little bit more info, we don't have any issues about dominance with Sam...he waits at the door, no growling with food, bones or chews, gets off the furniture when we tell him or any of the tell tale signs of dominance I read on here.

You just got your first sign when he grumbled at Mr. Boats. It's time to let Sam know you mean business. I noticed you said he gets off the furniture when you tell him to. Until he begins shaping up, it would be a good idea to keep him off the furniture, period. If you're sure Sam knows a command, do not repeat it. Give it to him once and if he doesn't respond, put him in the position you want. No more freebies for a while, either. Make him earn his affection, his dinner, etc. The apathy he's shown is now turning into something more serious and you'll want to nip that in the bud. Just remember that Sam will also need praise for things well done.

[Judi W]

Originally posted by MrsBoats
Just so you have a little bit more info, we don't have any issues about dominance with Sam...he waits at the door, no growling with food, bones or chews, gets off the furniture when we tell him or any of the tell tale signs of dominance I read on here.

:D Other than grumbling when asked for a down, refusing to obey with vigor if he doesn't want to.......

Not all dominance issues are "in your face", some are simply passive

If you have decided to slap a training collar on him and make him have some responsibility, you're on your way! In a few months we'll hear about a CGC, but please don't stop there..... Join MM and head towards that CD.

[Mojave's Mom]

Originally posted by Judi W


Join MM and head towards that CD.

It's no easy task, but the respect you have from your dog after all the work you put in makes everything you've done SOOOOO completely WORTHWHILE...you have complete control, and your dog KNOWS it. You'll have less challenging because the dog KNOWS you mean business..don't get me wrong, there are still days when Mojave gives me the "MAKE me" look...it takes ONE look from me and his mind is changed immediately...there's no better feeling. Trust me...:D GOOD LUCK!!!!!

[Judi W]

And just to add a double whammy "mom" tell Ms. Boats what you've noticed about the bonding between Mohave and yourself.

[Mojave's Mom]

Originally posted by Judi W
And just to add a double whammy "mom" tell Ms. Boats what you've noticed about the bonding between Mohave and yourself.

LOL...Mojave and my relationship is extremely close..guests in our home who were used to having all his attention (and his completely IGNORING of my voice) now comment on the fact that he'll still follow me anywhere, even with "new" people around...and are insulted!! Mojave literally will jump out of a deep sleep and follow me anywhere if he senses that I'm leaving a room. Sometimes I have to lock him in his crate to get anything done, otherwise he's right by my left side...ALL THE TIME. Before, if I took him out somewhere, getting him to listen to me was impossible...as soon as we were out the front door it was like I didnt exist. Now he won't go four steps without turning around to see if I'm there (this weekend at the beach was the first time he had a flexi-lead on him..he would not take advantage of those 26 feet of lead..I had to TELL him to go on ahead..and even then he'd still look back at me constantly), and distractions aren't a problem anymore. He'll listen even with his very pesky 4 month old Vizsla "cousin" jumping all over him (she's been an excellent training distraction!) Look at every new situation as a training opportunity...your dog will soon learn that no matter where it is, it MUST listen.

[MrsBoats]

The last post that MM just made rang a bell with me. Mojave before the training sounds just like Sam does now. If there are distractions....Sam couldn't care less if I'm there.

Wow, I guess I have been kidding myself that Sam is trained. :(

Judi, yup, I have decided to slap that prong collar on Sam and get hard core. I think we've outgrown the Gentle Leader. I did need it when we were starting out with this. But, I think I need to train Sam correctly and not use the Gentle Leader as a crutch anymore.

Thanks all of you for being frank and making me see where the problem really lies. :)

[Mojave's Mom]

Originally posted by MrsBoats
The last post that MM just made rang a bell with me. Mojave before the training sounds just like Sam does now. If there are distractions....Sam couldn't care less if I'm there.

Wow, I guess I have been kidding myself that Sam is trained. :(

Judi, yup, I have decided to slap that prong collar on Sam and get hard core. I think we've outgrown the Gentle Leader. I did need it when we were starting out with this. But, I think I need to train Sam correctly and not use the Gentle Leader as a crutch anymore.

Thanks all of you for being frank and making me see where the problem really lies. :)

GREAT! I remember thinking what you thought too...ohhh he's trained! Then WHAMO! Take him outside the house and he's a disaster on four legs...

We too worked up on different collars. The Gentle Leader was good for getting him to stop pulling ahead and getting him to look up at me, but then he'd get depressed with it on...he took a few steps backward when I tried the choke collar again, so my trainer suggested the prong. All problems resolved after that prong went on. As he got more and more "proofed" outdoors on my commands, I started switching back to the choke (since you can't use prongs in the ring at Trials) and slowly weened him off the prong (at times I'd have both collars on him so he wouldn't be able to tell which one MIGHT give a correction should he not listen...as my trainer suggested.) Now he's just completely trustworthy wherever we go.

DON'T GIVE UP, even though there WILL be times you'll feel like you want to. Judi W was a godsend to me...LISTEN CAREFULLY to everything she says...honestly, she's part of what turned my butt around! :) GOOD LUCK!! Hope to hear some exciting announcements soon...such as CGC, or even a leg or two toward that CD!! :D

[MrsBoats]

GREAT! I remember thinking what you thought too...ohhh he's trained! Then WHAMO! Take him outside the house and he's a disaster on four legs...

Holy crap....I've been in denial! Mu-hahahahah (that's my evil laugh) looks like good ol' Sam the Man is in for a rude awakening.

I would love to get Sam his CGC. It's really interesting now thinking about what my former trainer had said about the CGC. She had said she thought it was a really hard test and she's only passed one dog at Petsmart. But everyone else here has had puppies who passed it for crying out loud! So, I'm wondering if the training courses at PetsMart really do help people get their dogs certified as a CGC. I know that Sam couldn't pass it now at the level of his training. I've always known that.

You guys have been so great in helping me with all of this. Thank you so much!;) ;)

[Judi W]

Well, not meaning to disparage it, but I consider the CGC baby stuff. Any dog with basic obedience and rudimentary acceptable temperament should be able to do that as it is most forgiving, does not require any level of consistency (only have to do stuff once) and the people scoring it don't need to have much in the way of credentials. It is a nice start, but it is not obedience. I believe we should expect much much more from a Rottweiler.

Sam might not like his new world right away, but he will. You will be happier with him and hence he will be a happier boy. He will be a pleasure to take more places and he will understand what is expected of him. All benefit.

[Mojave's Mom]

Originally posted by Judi W


He will be a pleasure to take more places and he will understand what is expected of him. All benefit.

This is SOOO true...before Mojave's "turn around" I dreaded taking him anywhere...now, I'm on the web SEARCHING for dog-events we can go to! This past weekend we went to the Extreme Dog Challenge in San Fran...he was such a gentlemen among all the other dogs and in that crowd! We were packed in! Before he would have thrown a fit, this time, he just sat happily by my side receiving pats and attention from complete strangers....Our calendar is booked up with fun matches and doggy events all the way through October. You'll both be soooo much happier! The CGC is really easy stuff...the CD takes much more work...as I have learned...stubbornly :D :p

[WorkinDogz]

I agree with you, Judi. This is not to put down a CGC....but; a Canine Good Citizen test is merely showing that the dog "has the ability to be trained and gosh darn; the owners took a small step forward!"

I've evaluated quite a few CGC's and did indeed fail many dogs. :( One obedience club President said that if he knew I'd actually FAIL a dog; he wouldn't have invited me to judge it.....LOL Well....how can you pass a dog that attempted to bite on the stand for exam?? How can you pass a dog that REFUSED to come when called??? That's a Canine Good Citizen? Nah. That's a dog that needs training.

CGC is NOT a Companion Dog title and all too many people think it's "almost the same; so it's good enough". NOT.

Every single dog should EASILY be able to pass a CD. That's the MINIMUM for any dog owned responsibly. That doesn't mean the dog needs to be trialed TO the title...it does mean; however that the dog should be TRAINED to be able to COMPLETE the test.....successfully and consistantly.

Yep; it takes a lot of training to get there......but it's a COMPANION DOG TITLE......"well mannered; basic obedience trained PET."

I would love to know what dog "doesn't need" that level of training??

[Judi W]

Well, we have a thread in behavior where the dog is threatening children and the poster claims...

"The only trainer in our area ( I live in a very small town) said it wouldnt help and he would be afraid it would give him more confidence and make matters worse. He also has not been neutered. Any advice? "

Like that is believable. NOT. I also got the impression that the dog lives in the yard. I would be inclined to think that the trainer does not choose to work with an aggressive dog. (many do not, and that is understandable) Not all obedience trainers wish to take a courage test. I too believe that every dog should be trained to a CD level. Yes, that also means they should be able to sit peacefully next to another dog.

I have politely declined to be an evaluator for the CGC for the very reasons you stated. My signature on a piece of paper means something and too many of those are obtained from a club like you described with well-intentioned but mistaken people evaluating. It was designed as an outreach program by AKC, but has been abused because they have no controls.

Train those dogs, and as long as you're doing the work, go ahead and put that title on. No Rottweiler deserves less.

[WorkinDogz]

I'm with you 100% Judi.

When I'm instructing an obedience course, the first class (without the dog) the handlers are advised in writing and verbally that their "attendance" in class does not guarantee them a Certificate of Graduation from the class.

I, like you, cannot put my signature on a Certificate that DOES mean something (to some insurance companies...and to other trainers in the area that the student might just take another course from!) saying the dog "has successfully completed all requirements for graduation" when they haven't. :(

I hand those handlers an invitation to come back to the NEXT class instead.

It bugs the hell out of me when a person hands me a Certificate of Graduation from a course, in hopes of being placed in the Novice class......and they cannot execute 3/4 of the tasks that make up the Sub-Novice criteria. :(

Makes the "other" trainer look bad; and puts me in a position to possibly hurt feelings when I have to say I can't put them in a Novice class!

People don't want to hear that their doggie is being "held back".

[Burnsway]

I've evaluated quite a few CGC's and did indeed fail many dogs. One obedience club President said that if he knew I'd actually FAIL a dog; he wouldn't have invited me to judge it.....LOL Well....how can you pass a dog that attempted to bite on the stand for exam?? How can you pass a dog that REFUSED to come when called??? That's a Canine Good Citizen? Nah. That's a dog that needs training.

That reminds me of when they started the don't tell a child they are wrong stuff because it will hurt their feelings. I would never want to take my dog in and have them pass just because we went. If trainers do that then how do you know where to go from their. On my daughters Gymnastic teams the parents get mad sometime when a coach doesn't move them up but with that along with anything else if you dont build a perfect base, all the training goes down hill later when the base breaks.

[MrsBoats]

You guys will be so proud of me. :D I did it, I slapped a prong collar on Sam and we have been working with it all this week. He doesn't need that Gentle Leader at all....so, I was just kidding myself I needed that to control him.

I did have some more issues with Sam when I first used the prong. He was balking and was ignoring me, more of the same I posted earlier. I asked him to come and he blew me off. I corrected him like Judi W had suggested a couple of posts back....tongue lashing, scruff shake. He seemed to start to get the picture that I was meaning business. Then, when we were doing the heel, Sam was still being a punk and wasn't heeling like he knows how. I popped him quite strongly with the prong and he yelped out. I'm not sure if I surprised him or if I actually hurt Sam (I don't think I did though). But it worked!!! He started to heel like he should and we ended the session on that note.

We went back to the class tonight and I got a different prong collar as the trainer recommended. I had the big clunky prong we bought when we first rescued Sam. They suggested I buy this thin little prong collar. It's about 3/4" of an inch wide. I borrowed one from someone else in the class tonight and Sam seemed to respond to that very well when I gave him a correction. So, I'm feeling better about knowing how to get Sam to work. I bet in a couple of months, we should be able to take the CGC. Especially now you all have made me feel better about the test too.

Thank you all so much for all of your help, you all are the best!:D