Pinch Collars

[Jamie & Odin]

I have a question about pinch collars. I have noticed on some of the posts that many of you use them. I have to admit that I am a little confused, and am really asking for your input and not critisizing. I know what a pinch collar is, and it looks like a torture device. I would have NEVER considered putting one on any animal, especially one I loved. I have been under the impression that most "up-to-date" trainers use neither choke nor pinch collars, that they are considered not to be the best or most effective training tools. In addition, my trainer made it very clear on the first day of class that she would absolutely refuse to work with any owner who used a pinch collar on their dog, and would be happy to offer them a full refund as they left class. Can you guys clarify what the benefits of a pinch collar are and why they are used? Thanks.

[rottmommie]

I LOVE mine.
try putting one on your neck......it doesnt pinch at ALL unless a correction is needed.
even mild tugging doesnt hurt.
I hate to say this, BUT I say whatt i do for and with my dog, not the trainer, not the neighbor, nor friends or relatives.
I raised my kids the same way, and they, unlike MOST kids that I see, are polite and considerate.
I was in a restaurant this morning where there were several children that made my dog look like an angel.
I am the one who needs to be sure that I have my dog under control. He is not hurt, he is not tortured, and he is not being abused. Several trainers I know use them. They are to be used as a TOOL, for training.

[Jamie & Odin]

Thanks Rottmommie,

I know everyone here loves their dogs, that's why, with what I've heard about pinch collars, I was wondering. I still don't think I'll use one, I love my halti!

[Ilovemypuppy]

I love my Halti for Maggie too ! All the trainers I know around here have long since outlawed choke and prong(pinch) collars.

[rottmommie]

not that I really want to get in a pi$$in contest, but my vet told me that they have NEVER seen a case of injury from a prong collar that is being used properly......
I KNOW of cases where choke colars have caused damage, that is the reason I no longer use a choke......

[K-9Girl]

Both my dogs have prong collars and I love the way these collars work.

I would NEVER put something on either of my dogs that would hurt them either. While walking, both my dogs are very well behaved and this has to do with proper training and the proper use of the prong collar. Yes, these collars do look rather scary, but when used correctly they are wonderful and effective tools for training.

I have never been to an obedience class where the instructor did not recomend using a prong collar, and along with the recomendation gave the proper technique for using these collars.

BTW, I am a little confused as to what a "halti" is....is it an acutal halter or is it a leash that somehow goes around the dogs mouth?? I have never seen one.........

[JGulley]

A halti is basically a head harness. One loop around the back of the head, another loop around the dogs snout. Leash fastens to the snout loop. When a corrective snap is given, the mouth is forced closed. When the dog forges ahead, by pulling the lead the head turns and the theory is that the body will follow.

I have one. Drives Hiedi mad when I put it on her. My last dog had one and he didn't mind it one bit (I recommend it for the dogs that don't get haywire over it.) I could probably put it on Hiedi and leave it on and break her of the "fear" but as long as the buckle collar is working I'll stick to it.

As far as the pinch goes- it has it's uses. But I will quote some other folks in here because I agree- there is no reason to have the pinch on the dog when I'm going for a walk around the block- "power steering" I believe was the term used. My dog will walk nicely with me on the buckle- for now that is what is important. My rainbow bride doggie had a pinch collar on during training for a short period of time. I say "short" because the dog learned VERY QUICKLY to avoid the correction.

[WorkinDogz]

The mark of a good trainer; a well rounded and one able to work with the owners of ANY DOG placed in front of them is their ability to be more than a "one-method" trainer.

A good trainer has a huge bag of tools and a solid knowledge of the use of those tools.

Just as it is questionable for any trainer to slap a prong collar on every dog that walks through the door.....it's equally red-flag raising for any quality trainer who knows their "stuff" to say "I forbid the use of" any training tool that will prove to be and has proven to be a very effective one.

The trainers you can learn the most from and your dog has the best chance of having the solid foundation layed from...is the trainer who is willing and able to modify their chosen method of training to suit the individual dogs they are working with.

Many trainers don't "like" some of the tools of the trade...but the GOOD ONES will be able to explain their use and WHEN they are are effective...and will USE THEM when needed and when the dog will benefit from them.

To say "prong collars are outlawed in this class" not only makes me roll my eyes but also makes me leary of that trainers limitations as an Instructor.

[rottmommie]

AMEN!

[Homerhomer]

We use prong collar with Homer. It was recommended to us by our trainer (Petsmart trainer with 20 years of experince who owns 9 dogs, rotties and gsd among others)who is all for positive methods of training however doesn't mind harsh corrections if she sees the need for it.

[Storm]

Originally posted by WorkinDogz
To say "prong collars are outlawed in this class" not only makes me roll my eyes but also makes me leary of that trainers limitations as an Instructor.

I agree totally!

[NJrottielover]

Both my rotties use prongs...a couple of years ago I too thought they were medievil torture devices, but in actuality they are much, much more humane than chokes. As a past poster mentioned, there is very rarely ever any damage done as a result of using a prong collar. Until I met my current trainer and she explained each and every type of collar to us, I wouldn't have considered using one. Now I know that I simply just wasn't educated on them and didn't understand them. That's not to say they can't be used in a cruel way. Of course they can. But the great thing about the prong is that the dogs pretty much correct themselves. If they pull, you don't have to do anything. The dog will realize...whoa, I guess I shouldn't do that. My trainer took a great deal of time to explain this to us and recommended certain collars for certain dogs. Does every dog need a prong? No. Ours happen to b/c they used to pull us down the street. Not any more. By the way, she also said that people hate to see prongs, dogs could care less about them, but people love head halters and dogs hate them.

[k&s]

I use the prong collar on both my rotties. When we are for walks, we OFTEN get comments such as -- "wow, they look like really happy dogs". I think if they were being tortured by the prongs they would not be so happy on their walks.

I oncce went to a trainer (actually nationally known trainer in training many different types of animals), who did not allow prong collars. Used a choke collar instead because I liked some of her training approach and learned quite a bit from her classes in some ways. however, I found it much less humane to hear the breath choking out of my dog than to give a single, quick prong correction that likely would not have to be repeated (at least not very often). This is the same trainer who has people throwing rolled up newspapers and magazines at the dogs for various infractions, and who kicked us out of agility class because (1) she didn't like the way my reasonably well-behaved rottie was looking at the little tiny poodle that was yapping at all the bigger dogs, and (2) I wouldn't let her people throw rolled up magazines at my rottie when he looked (yes, I said 'looked', not 'lunged') at the little yappy dog.

It was a good lesson that this trainer had a 'one method fits all' approach, and was not someone I cared to work with again.

So, I would say, if the trainer says not to use a prong, you could try what I did -- use his/her methods and see if they work for you. If not, you could try using the prong on your own but not in the class -- perhaps you'll still get something out of the class. But be forewarned, the trainer might have a limited knowledge of training, and also might lack knowledge in training certain, physically strong and strong-willed, breeds. It might also be a 'heads-up' that the trainer is predjudiced against rotties. In my case I found these things to be true.

[Jamie & Odin]

What great replies! I really appreciate your input in an area that I was really confused about. My trainer is very well qualified, and not at all prejudiced against Rotties. In fact, she runs the local humane shelter where I got Odin, and had three of his litter mates in her classes, and couldn't speak highly enough of them. She has seen horrible things done to animals that come to the shelter, not a few of them involving prong collars. While I know that any tool can be misused, I think that she doesn't want to encourage people to use a tool that she has seen cause so much damage. By the way, how do you know if your trainer is "up to snuff"? I know there are licenses, certifications etc. but what type of questions do you ask to know that their methods are going to be right for you and your dog? I am interested in having Odin trained as a therapy dog, and my current trainer does not do that type of training, so I need to start the hunt!

[Ramon]

If you do a search on the net for prong collars, you'll probably see several references to a study in Germany that showed that prong collars were safer than choke chains. Autopsies of dogs trained with both collars showed that nearly all the dogs in the study trained with choked chains had trauma in the neck area, while very few of the dogs trained with prong collars had neck trauma. Of course, that only applies if the device is used correctly.
If the head halti works for what you need to do, then fine, stick with it. Personally, I never had good results with the halti, but individual dogs are different. I've also found that when you get into more advanced obedience excercises, certain specifc tasks that require compulsion are best done with a prong collar.