Prong collar not stopping the pulling

[dogs rule]

Based on recommendations from this Board, I got a prong collar -- medium prongs -- for my VERY determined puller, Greta, rescued at 18 months. (Yes, ironically this is the same dog that has a problem with submissive peeing). At first it helped a little bit, but now she is right back to pulling, same as before. She actually pulls so hard, it starts to choke her. I am afraid she will hurt herself.

She has a smallish neck for a Rott, with relatively short hair. I am fastenening it at both rings. It sits right above her collar and rests against her neck, but loose enough to easily slide a finger underneath. Am I doing something wrong? Have any of you found a Gentle Leader or Halti to be more effective at stopping the pulling.

P.S. She can heel in back yard but entirely forgots once the paws hit the sidewalk. She won't even look back for her favorite treats. Often on a walk, she won't even eat a treat put right under her nose. I can practically read her mind -- Its a SQUIRRELL, or DOG. LETS GO, LETS GO, LETS GOOOOOO.

[AngelBunny]

dogs rule:

Prong collars are sometimes referred to as "cleric's collars" because when the dog wears one, the dog gets instant religion.

The fact you say it's not working likely means you don't have it on Greta properly.

Prong collars fit SNUGLY, right behind the dog's ears--and I don't mean the tips of the ears. Prongs are worn high up on the neck. The collar doesn't slide up and down the dog's neck and if it does, it's too loose--take out enough prongs so the collar doesn't move around on the dog's neck. When prong collars are on properly, they don't move on the dog's neck at all--except to tighten up.

[RottnKid1]

And if it STILL doesn't work, try a Halti or Gentle Leader. I like the Halti myself, but use whatever works best for Greta.

[WorkinDogz]

In all my years in training.....I have NEVER ENCOUNTERED a properly fitted prong collar not succeed. Ever.

I've trained some pretty big, wild dogs for people and IF the collar is used as Angelbunnie has explained; it is beyond effective.

[TrinityRun]

You knew I'd have to respond.........

The prong collar is a tool, no more - no less. FAR, FAR, FAR too many people (and I'm generalizing here, not pointing a direct finger at the original poster) are too quick to run to Pet Smart where the "not-so-smart" clerk tells them the prong is the answer to their prayers. (Yet has no clue on it's usage.)

The answer to your prayers is in a good obedience class, where not only the dog learns - but the handler learns. IMO, it's silly to use a prong just to power steer your dog down the street. A dog like a Rottweiler must have a certain level of obedience trained in to him or her first. Again, the prong is merely a tool and it can be very instrumental in meeting your goals.

Please folks, do not buy one of these collars and foolishly think the problems are solved - obedience is a MUST for everything you do with your dog.

[WorkinDogz]

You couldn't be more correct Lauren.

The prong collar shouldn't be the reason the dog doesn't pull anymore. It is by far the most relied upon "crutch" however.

I would have to say though....I'd rather see a dog going for a walk on a properly fitted prong collar; even if the owner never enrolls in a single obedience course......than being put on a choke collar (which is FAR LESS humane than a prong collar) dragging the owner from place to place (having walks become more of a PITA than enjoyable for both the dog and owner) and the dog missing out on "getting out" at all simply because the owner (who indeed dropped the ball by not actually TRAINING the dog) doesn't want to fight with a pulling dog.

The prong collar will always be the most misunderstood, misused and ill-fitted piece of equiptment available-------but--------at least it's a little safer and less likely to cause the damage to the dog that a choke does.

Too bad dogs and prongs don't come with the same instructions (warranty) that cars do.......if you don't use it correctly; the warranty is null and void.

Training classes are as important as oil changes every 3,000 miles.

[RottnKid1]

I absolutely agree with both of the above posts. The same thing goes for a Halti or Gentle Leader, too. To put it more simply, these tools treat the symptoms, they don't cure the problem.

[Judi W]

If you have not been getting any instruction, it is most likely that the collar is still not properly placed and adjusted and more important that you are not using your leash correctly. The idea is not that the dog can't learn to work through the discomfort of the collar by pulling into it. Yes, they can. You need to learn how to pop and release with your leash (that is called a correction) and you are unlikely to learn that on the forum. It is best demonstrated and best if you are observed so you can be corrected when using the collar and leash incorrectly. Training is much more than equipment.

[luvarott]

It certainly sounds like the collar is fitted correctly. Major problem is that a dog with the size and strength of a Rottweiler, and at this age, could care less about the prongs if they are feeling them continually. I can just picture the image of a Rott pulling away with a prong on, straining down the street, cus it is a common one.

It is the surprise action of the prongs that helps train the dog not to leave your side. The leash needs to be loose (absolutely loose ie. hanging down on the side of the dog). The prongs lay flat when the leash is like this. When the dog gets out of position you give a quick pop on the leash. This makes the prongs come alive and pop out on the dog. Dog goes "WHAT!! what happened??", looks back to owner who responds with a big smile/praise/cookies cus you want to reward that attention to you....dog very quickly figures out that "out there" ie.out of position, something is going to bite him, but "right here", beside owner is a very pleasant place to be.
Off to classes you go....so you can learn how to give a proper correction, if this is the method of training you have chosen.

[Judi W]

Actually, if it "sits right above her collar" and her regular collar rides where they do on most dogs, the prong is fitted too loosely and too low on the neck. It should be sized so that it is right behind the earswithout sliding down. Lower on the neck it is on those heavy traps and little effective.

[lblax]

I am fastenening it at both rings. It sits right above her collar and rests against her neck, but loose enough to easily slide a finger underneath. Am I doing something wrong? Have any of you found a Gentle Leader or Halti to be more effective at stopping the pulling.

you should only be hooking the collar on the ring that swivels not both that lets the collar work properly. and if you can slide fingerseasily under it it is probably sliding to far down on the neck. if your dog is still pulling you are not giving a hard enough correction. follow the posts and get the proper training but until you do i suggest two collars the one he normally wears and the prong on him at the same time if you take his normal collar off he will only think he gets correction from the prong (but only hook leash to prong) when you take him for a walk keep leash loose and any time you fell even the slightest pressure on the leash give a hard correction not a nagging correction( the dog may actually yelp , dont worry about hurting him its mainly from the suprize of the correction) and dont say anything when you correct and after a few days the dog will realize that everytime he comes do the end of the leash he will feel discomfort. after he successfully starts walking on a loose leash the you can start the healing. good luck

[luvarott]

You are so right Judy......I should have reskimmed the post....the prong collar should be right behind the ears up high on the neck....and that is one of the reasons I much prefer a prong over a choke. Cus if you get a choke big enough to go over a big Rott head it will inevitably slip down the neck too far to be effective for a correction. I stand corrected and vow to read a little closer before I reply;)

[Judi W]

:D
Nah, you read like most people and it usually works. That is just me.

[TrinityRun]

Originally posted by lblax
you should only be hooking the collar on the ring that swivels not both that lets the collar work properly. )

Sorry, Larry. Properly fitted, the leash is hooked to both the dead and the live ring.

(if your dog is still pulling you are not giving a hard enough correction.)

A "hard" correction with a prong isn't wise. While it's more humane than a choke collar, if you crank on it - you CAN (and will) hurt the dog. This collar is purposely designed to give you a better pinch correction with a fraction of the effort.

(when you take him for a walk keep leash loose and any time you fell even the slightest pressure on the leash give a hard correction not a nagging correction( the dog may actually yelp , dont worry about hurting him its mainly from the suprize of the correction) and dont say anything when you correct and after a few days the dog will realize that everytime he comes do the end of the leash he will feel discomfort. after he successfully starts walking on a loose leash the you can start the healing. good luck)

This is the exact line of thinking I was talking about earlier. The prong should not be used to "power steer" your dog. You must begin this lesson, (walking on a leash without pulling) just like any other - from the beginning. There is reward for proper behavior - not just corrections. It should be fun and the dog should have a command for an informal stroll. Not a technical heel but a walk "with me" kind of position. Also, there are many times our dogs *should* be at the end of their leads. They shouldn't be stressed over feeling pressure on their neck. That stress comes from not understanding and that's no one's fault but the trainer. As the dog becomes better at walking, you introduce distractions.

Another thing I disagree with Larry on concerns corrections. A properly administered correction should be so fast the dog has no clue where it came from. The *instant* he comes back, looks at you, holds the position (depending on what you are working on) the dog should ALWAYS get the praise. Praise, like correction should fit the behavior. The teaching must be black and white and your voice is one of the *best* tools in your arsenal for reinforcing correct behavior. I use the word "yes." I agree there are instances where one shouldn't say anything but not this early in the learning process. This dog needs to hear he made the right choice. Again, establishing the rules and making them clear is the key to learning.

Do some more reading on the subject. Better still, get to an obedience class (positive motivational methods) and learn first hand from a knowledgeable instructor.

Happy training!

[WorkinDogz]

Sorry Larry....but I have to disagree with you on all counts that Lauren pointed out!!!

(Geez I wish she would just stop reading my mind! ;) )