Lack of Attention in Agility When a Border Collie is Around

[SigTau66]

I have a weird one for everybody.

I recently started my male (Kalil) in agility. He's 3.5 yo now and has obedience down to the point where 99% of the time I don't even need to leash him. That 1% only occurs when there is a border collie around. He's had an INTENSE fixation with border collies since he was about a year old. I believe I know where it came from, but not why. Right now, though, neither of those are important.

Luckily the beginning agility class only has a border collie in it sometimes. One of the part time trainers uses her border collie some nights while other nights she uses her dobie. Anyway, last week was the straw that broke the camel's back. She had her border collie there and Kalil would NOT do anything. He just wanted to run after that border collie and play/dominate/chase whatever he does to border collies. The trainers kept telling me to get his attention, but seeing as I'm fairly new at this place they don't understand yet that I CAN'T get his attention. I literally don't know how. I could hold a raw steak (I don't feed him his dinner on agility nights) in front of his face and all he would do was try to look around it like it was a door. Anyway, we ended up leaving about halfway through because it wasn't fun for me, it wasn't fun for Kalil and I was quickly losing my patience.

Another thing I will say is that he's always had an issue (i.e. wants to play and chase) with hyper and active dogs. He'll focus on them, but I can almost always get his attention back to working mode, but border collies take that to another level all together.

Anyway, it was amazing to watch this in action. This place has open agility time during the weekend. So I figured since we didn't get a good workout I'd go to one of these open times and hope nobody was there. We got there and nobody was there. But about 10 minutes in a border collie showed up. They left us alone for 10 more minutes before they wanted to run through some stuff. At that point we went to opposite ends of the area and started working. Of course Kalil would have nothing to do with that. He would just focus on the BC. Anyway they left after 15 minutes and we started again. Next an Airedale Terrier came in. No problem there. We were able to run through our exercises without even being on opposite ends of the course. It was kind of funny to see this in such stark contrast like this.

At this point I'm thinking I just may go to agility without Kalil and just practice on the weekends with him. I don't want a repeat of last week.

So, anybody have suggestions? I've tried new treats. I bought a tug toy that we ONLY use at agility class. He LOVED playing with that...until the border collie came in. I've tried stopping agility and breaking into obedience for 5 minutes to get his mind back into working mode. I just don't know what to do. Anybody ever had this type of problem with any dog before? What did you do if you did?

[Rottlva]

God loves prey drive, HUH???? My dog is a very tough, high drive dog. He has been extensively socialized, and is working at advanced obedience levels....obedience is a way of life for us. That being said, when a border collie, barky super fast dog runs agility, and he is in the SAME ring as them, he fixates...will do commands for food, will hold stays, will tug, but the moment he has a chance, he's locked on to them again. Collar corrections jazz the hell out of him, a tug is just a redirection for him, it doesn't fix the fact of fixation, just curbs it.... So, my instructor, used a startle response.... She paired the throwing of a chair, (NOT at him, near him) him jumping and then saying "cut it out" to him fixiating on the border collie. We then did some happy heeling around while the border collie ran again, absolutely no fixating....the unpleasant chair noise was paired with the action of fixating...Since my goal with this dog is an OTCh, VCD3, this was an issue that we felt we needed to nip in the bud. He can't be on a sit stay and watch a fast dog run out and get a dumbell and attempt to go tag him......

Now, I do not recommend anyone else to use this protocol..... But, it has worked for us, leaving a damn strong impression.

[targonrotts]

i get something similar.
kelly gets turned on by malinois on the agility field...especially queenie owned by peter liu. she goes wild and when it's her turn, she burns up the course and tries to imitate queenies killer weaves(she has done the 60 pole challenge).

gala gets turned on by certain aussies she knows.

all by any rottweiler.

but they stay under control. they just whine and carry on, but when it's their turn to work, they try even harder and faster.


in my class, when a dog acts that way and it is not paying attention, it goes to time out and misses play time. we first try taking them out of the situation and have them work/play and we try to get the handler more interesting than the other dog.

[moondog]

Originally Posted by SigTau66

I have a weird one for everybody.

LOL, I read the title of your thread and said to myself "Gee, I know a dog like that...." Not weird at all. Prey monsters are stimulated by prey monsters.

Originally Posted by Rottlva

God loves prey drive, HUH???? My dog is a very tough, high drive dog. He has been extensively socialized, and is working at advanced obedience levels....obedience is a way of life for us. That being said, when a border collie, barky super fast dog runs agility, and he is in the SAME ring as them, he fixates...will do commands for food, will hold stays, will tug, but the moment he has a chance, he's locked on to them again. Collar corrections jazz the hell out of him, a tug is just a redirection for him, it doesn't fix the fact of fixation, just curbs it...........Since my goal with this dog is an OTCh, VCD3, this was an issue that we felt we needed to nip in the bud. He can't be on a sit stay and watch a fast dog run out and get a dumbell and attempt to go tag him......

Gee, your dog sounds an awful lot like my dog! (For those who don't know it, Rottlva's dog and mine are littermates...) I waited to start agility for this very reason. Chili's obedience is wonderful and it's a darn good thing because I train with mostly border collies. She is still kept on lead or flexi for the most part, because what I know about her is that if she thinks for one second that she can target and go, there are times she's gonna do it...and if she needs to stay on lead for another year (or the rest of her life ) until I am convinced she can exhibit the self control she needs, it's fine by me. I don't want any mistakes like that and I'm in no hurry to title. She is much improved and I can "usually" get her attention back but once in awhile she'll target one particular border collie and be unable to let it go.

She LOVES to work and be a part of the activities, so what I've found helps with her for those moments when she just can't get her mind back on her own business is to simply take her to her crate on the field and crate her up, without saying a word to her, and then go back to the group without her and join in on the exercises myself as if I did have a dog on my arm. I've only felt the need to do this a couple times, and she was much better after 5-10 minutes to settle, isolated from the fun and the companionship.

There have been a few moments where I would not be opposed to the chair method you mentioned, but I doubt either of Chili's instructors would do it.

SigTau66, I would do more work on attention with your dog and strategize so that when the border collies are running, you've got your dog actively working on something that keeps his attention on you. Turn away and heel the other direction, do some small left turn circles, do one step sit, three step sit, five step sit....whatever you need to do to keep his attention on you. The fixating is self-rewarding, and the more he succeeds with it, the more conditioned it will become.

[SigTau66]

Thanks for the suggestions, but after last night I think I'm going to give up on agility with Kalil. I'll try Abby at agility when she gets through enough obedience.

Along with his not paying attention again last night, we had an incident with the border collie. The border collie had just did the A frame and Kalil went right up after him for his turn. Well the border collie surprised us and jumped back on the end of the A frame. Kalil reacted when the dog bumped into him and then the border collie went nuts for about 5 seconds snapping at Kalil who tried getting away by bumping into my knee with his big noggin and bruising it real nicely. Nobody was to blame. It was just one of those things, but the worse part was everybody's reaction. Even though it was the border collie doing all the noise making and display, my dog was the monster. After that point a lot of the women in the class were shying their dogs away from Kalil.

I might offer up Kalil for training to the woman with the border collie. She's a part time trainer there and has told me she would love to work with Kalil in agility.

[debbiej]

don't know what it is about those dogs. we had one in obedience class. the owner would toss a frisbee for it, to keep it "occupied" while other dogs were working. geez, Boris would rather chase a BC than anything.

the dog that came up on us from behind, the incident that caused me to face plant and break a front tooth was a BC.

something very foxy about them, perhaps?

[targonrotts]

i once ran past one in a flyball tournament(not too smart) and got bit by one. the bite was so strong it tore up my jeans and i had 2 k9 holes on my thigh.

they can be high strung!

don't give up on kalil. maybe try private classes or small group classes for now until more ready.

[Ayoka]

hehee Bear loves to chase labs (black ones) I don't know why but they dont appreciate his rough play very often.

I'm starting to sound like a broken record but working on "attention" can help and there are afew books out there to help people with dogs that just get too turned on by certain things/places. We have Control Unleashed and I've ben unsing some of the exercises to keep him from labs, squirrels, birds and things are coming along slowly.

The main thing, I think, is to be aware of your environment and in tune with where your dog's mind (readiny body posture etc) so that you can avoid things altogether (you see a dog before he does and you turn away to do something fun and rewarding) or you are able to stop him from locking on because you see the signs that you are about to lose him. Sometimes this means not being so close to that dog, a smaller class or maybe some one on one. If thhis other woman is great with her dog, ask her how she trains then YOU can leanr how to work with YOUR dog who sounds like she will be really fun.

Also, some dogs get TOO revved up by rough play and need doggy zen (my dog) so we work on some slower, more stationary "zen things" to keep him calm and distracted like tricks (shake a paw, wave, sits, downs etc.) every dog is different that way.

[hennie400]

I do agility with my cattle dog and there is a large Doberman who reacts to Border Collies only.
I also have a Border collie and she has been chased by rotties at my dog club wheras they will leave my ACD alone. My BC is a very melow and skilfull socially but they must love that fluffy fast moving black and white

[hennie400]

I do agility with my cattle dog and there is a large Doberman who reacts to Border Collies only. Fine with my cattle dog.

I also have a Border collie and she has been chased by rotties at my dog club wheras they will leave my ACD alone. My BC is a very melow and skilfull socially but they must love that fluffy fast moving black and white.

Last trial a GSD left his ring to chase a BC up the A frame.