Perfecting the Front

[Judi W]

We use "come-fore's" in order to work on the front without it being part of the recall. When teaching the recall, I don't want to slow it down by stressing the sits in front, but at some point they have to put that together. When you say 4 classes, are you talking about 4 sessions? or 4 classes? Makes a big difference. I don't like doing recalls on leash from a sit. The distance (6 feet) is not adequate for the dog to have a mind picture of moving quickly to the handler and sitting in front. Most of my students and I use a food reward for the straight front. If the dog is not straight, no food. When you can see the dog is going to be crooked take a couple of steps backwards till they get it right, then a reward. Takes time for them to see why and when they get the reward. I don't use a bunch of equipment when training. Leash, collar and pocketfull of treats. When we move to open, leash, collar, treats, and dumbell hanging off a strap on my belt. I want my hands free to pet, praise, use the leash.......

In my part of the country we train and trial outdoors, so there are no mats to act as a runway for the dogs. They must learn to come in straight without the guidelines of a mat. Also, recalls can be practiced serendiptiously at any time and any place. Just have a cookie in your pocket. Again, no reward unless it is straight.

If you are on only the 4th class, that is quite soon to expect a consistent straight front. If it is the 4th session, it is not.

A couple of other hints. Make sure you are smiling at the dog. A happy smile on your fact will help with the dog looking at your face. If it is coming in fast, and looking at your face, and sits fast it will be straight! It takes time for the dog to stop and angle itself. Take that time away. It is OK to hold the treat at your belt buckle area initially to give the dog a target. You will have to drop that later and wean the dog to your having your hands at your side. But, they have to be weaned at some point to work for a delayed reward also. Some people are very good at spitting the food right into the dogs mouth, so the treat is in the mouth, dog looking straight up and "spit". That is not one of my skills.

[Mojave's Mom]

Originally posted by Judi W:
<STRONG>
It is OK to hold the treat at your belt buckle area initially to give the dog a target. You will have to drop that later and wean the dog to your having your hands at your side. </STRONG>

Judi, this is one of my problems and I'm still trying to figure out how to deal with it and we're showing in two weeks!!!

If I leave my hands at my side, once I give the command to "heel" from the front, Mojave goes around the back and will usually nudge his nose on my hand. But other than keeping both both or just my left hand up at my waist (which I'm unsure if this is even a good idea in the ring??) what can I do to stop the nose-nudging??

Rottnkid- I had the same problem with "angling" on the front. Judi's advice is excellent, especially when you're using really yummy treats! They'll do just about anything to get to them! :D good luck! :)

[Judi W]

Your hands must be at your side during the recall and finish, you don't have the option allowed during heeling of placing your left hand at your waist.

Just make sure your hand is open and not in a fist which will clue him there is not a treat in it. Do NOT practice finishes with your recalls, save those for in the ring otherwise you end up with a crooked front (dog getting ready for the finish) or an automatic finish. Crooked front, one point, automatic finish - 4 points! A nudge of the hand after finishing - 1/2. No big deal.

Humm, this makes me wonder if those of you getting crooked fronts are putting a finish at the end of your recall. If you are, stop it now. Practice your finishes by doing a pivot in front of the dog, and do not do them with your recall and front. Dogs are quite smart. If you just make them get up and go around you after their sit, they'll sit crooked so they'll be aiming in the right direction for that finish. ;)

[Mojave's Mom]

Judi-

You are so right. I never thought of it that way...When Mojave comes in and sits crooked he's always sitting with his butt angled to my left, which makes sense if he's going to heel around me..he's angling himself ahead of time!

Alright....so, we're going to work hard the next two weeks on this! Thanks for the advice and again, I learned something new today! :) :D

[judy v]

I agree with the idea of not always putting a finish on the recall. You can seriously slow down the speed. A couple of other ideas: put the food in your mouth (of course now you'll have to add "spitting" to your list of skills). We used to make chutes out of rolled chicken wire which was a little harder for them to see. Whatever, try to vary the practice sessions. Keep them guessing, I guess. Repetition gets dull for everyone.

[alexav]

I hope this may help some of you,

I teach my dogs both the "flip finish" and the "around finish". The corresponding commands are "READY" or "AROUND".

This way my dog sits VERY straight and VERY interested "Which finish will I get to do?"

I practice recalls, fronts, and finishes seperately almost all the time. The result? A REALLY fast, happy recall, (Sometimes I think "there's NO way she's gonna be able to stop!" But she always does, STRAIGHT, FAST and her finishes are Wonderful! (and she always gets alot of applause :D )

The timing I use with my left hand is, after the dog is all the way behind me (on around finish) I bring my palm back to my waist. This has to be done correctly or you could get points off for double command. (the dog should NOT see the hand move).

Just one of my quirky training techniques...But it works!!!!

[Judi W]

Sorry, but with the finish, you can use a command OR signal, not both. If you are using a verbal command, your hands must remain at your side and cannot move. Doesn't matter whether the dog sees it or not, the judge will see it.

[alexav]

So, Judi, when DO you put your hand back to position? I have never had ANY points taken from my recalls.

I would like to know if I am doing something wrong...I sure would hate to lose points on something silly like that.

[ June 11, 2001: Message edited by: alexaV ]

[judy v]

I, also, like to train both finishes, and it really pays off in the CDX work. While the finish to the left looks sharp, the one to the right allows for that tight squeeze on the broad jump. I forgot to mention that on my first dog I made the mistake of training everything together. After all, I thought I was training speciffically for competition. Did I end up with a mess! Talk about anticipation. I ended up have to do a lot re-training. Now I separate everything, and things are looking much better. I even mix the exercises from level to level. We both have more fun.

[alexav]

JudyW, I am using only verbal. (NOVICE B) What I am doing, and have always done, is to put my left hand back to the position it will be for "heel". I move my hand so as not to interfere with the dogs final position, it's not a signal to the dog at all but could be mistaken for one if I did it too soon.

I hope I don't sound like I am arguing, because I value your input, I just want to make sure I am being clear on the way I move my hand. I am looking at four score sheets from AKC and three from ASCA and there are all 30's for the recalls but I will stop doing it if there is a chance my dog would lose a point when we try for CDX's(AKC, UKC, and ASCA)...She's too good to have to put up with HANDLER ERROR! :D

Thank you, I appreciate the time you are expending too. :)

[ June 11, 2001: Message edited by: alexaV ]

[Judi W]

Oh, I didn't think you were arguing with me. I know the regulations. You have perhaps been lucky in having judges who were not observant or did not know the regs. Are you talking about trials or matches?

Wow, I rarely find anyone who loses no points at all on their recalls. Good for you. Actually, though, unless you are waiting until after the judge has said "exercise finished" your hands must remain at your sides. The change in the regs to allow the left hand to be at belt level applies only during the heeling exercises. You will find the description of where the hands must be in Chapter two of the AKC obedience regs. I don't have my ASCA rules with me, but they are the same. Now, the specification is that the hands must be at the side until after the dog has done it's front. That allows for them to move if giving a signal for the finish but even then they must return to the sides. However, if they move during the finish and you have used a verbal, then you are giving a double command. That calls for a substantial deduction.

[alexav]

Wow, I guess I HAVE been lucky. Yes these are Trials, not matches and Breezy has her CD in AKC and ASCA so far...1st place her first two times out with a score of 195.5 and 197 respectively. Our third leg was spoiled by gremlins.. :o During the free heel, there were some strange noises in the ceiling of the building (she must have thought there was a badguy on the roof.LOL) and I lost her. We placed fourth that day with 189.5. -and I thought I had proofed for just about anything. Ha!

Thanks, JudyW, I will start today with keeping my hand at my side for the whole excersise!

[Judi W]

Alexa,
I can understand why you are really interested in the fine points as those are wonderful scores. Yes, a double command can cost you as much as 1 to 3 points depending upon the judge. We have many that are quite sticklers on these things. Last month we had one who berated handlers about not returning their hand quickly enough to their side after giving the dog the scent for the scent articles. Took points off for it also! So, you betcha, keep those hands planted. Get your regs out and study the first part (not just the part about the class). The standards are in the front before you get to the class descriptions. Also, the regs have the guidelines for judges in the back now which is nice. I don't think it is fair for judges to know something exhibitors do not, so read those also.
Best,

[Mojave's Mom]

OK, new question....should you keep your hands off the dog when in-between excersises? For example, after the stand for exam going into the heel-free, should I take him by the choke collar and lead him to the beginning of the pattern-line or should I leave him free?? I had a judge at a match tell me that the "clock" starts as soon as we enter the ring and that points can be deducted "below the line."

[Judi W]

Your judge is correct. Any rough handling between exercises can not only cost you points, but get you excused. Most judges cut a bit more slack in the Novice A class than they do in the B - although they are not supposed to.

In the Novice class it is acceptable to "gently guide" your dog by the collar between exercises. You'd better not grab the live ring. You can put one finger through the collar. What I recommend: If you have a dog that gets excited between exercises, don't do a big deal at the "exercise finished". Do a nice pat on the head, say good dog, and give a heel command to the next exercise. That way you are not wrestling around trying to get the dog in position for the next part. The judge wants to get the exhibitors in and out in the most efficient manner. It looks bad if the handler is giving 3 or 4 heel commands before they can start the heel free and it eats up time. Whether you "guide" the dog or heel it free to the next spot depends upon the dog. Personally, I prefer to see the dog heeled to position, but there is no fault in slipping a finger under the collar and guiding. No points off for that.