off the pole

[debbiej]

tonight I finally got to go to training again. employee/business/long hours made me have to miss last week.

Boris' obedience was great. he really made me proud. we did a whole pattern, crowd and all.

during protection work, he has been leashed to a pole. I encourage, clap him on the side, kick back the sleeve, and pretend I am holding him. but tonight, Jim took him off the pole. until tonight, the helper came within his reach. tonight, Jim let him go to the helper. the helper said he starts out with a hesitant bite, then regrips and bites hard. they were deciding how to help him bite hard from the start. I thanked Jim and he said, "well thank you, I miss working rotties."

[poohbearsmom]

Originally Posted by debbiej

tonight I finally got to go to training again. employee/business/long hours made me have to miss last week.

Boris' obedience was great. he really made me proud. we did a whole pattern, crowd and all.

during protection work, he has been leashed to a pole. I encourage, clap him on the side, kick back the sleeve, and pretend I am holding him. but tonight, Jim took him off the pole. until tonight, the helper came within his reach. tonight, Jim let him go to the helper. the helper said he starts out with a hesitant bite, then regrips and bites hard. they were deciding how to help him bite hard from the start. I thanked Jim and he said, "well thank you, I miss working rotties."

Going to prey (letting Boris run to the helper), should help his bite a lot. Less pressure on the boy. Bugaboo is just starting out on the pole now. Soon, we will start sessions on the pole, then end with a prey bite or two. As rotties tend to be higher in defense than GSDs and mals, this is generally how we work them - keeps the bite better, and *hopefully* the thrashing down.

Sounds like you're having FUN! yay.

Not many helpers say they "miss" working rotties...LOL.

[debbiej]

I am having fun!! and it may be Boris is having even more. He is SO happy out there! and Jim was holding the leash that time. showing me.

[debbiej]

I should mention that the guys were blaming his hesitant bite on the prong collar he was wearing for correction for breaking a sit. they are discussing the collar/line arrangement for next time. I don't know enough to speak up, but I wonder if the ecollar would be a good idea here.

[Skip]

Originally Posted by debbiej

I should mention that the guys were blaming his hesitant bite on the prong collar he was wearing for correction for breaking a sit. they are discussing the collar/line arrangement for next time. I don't know enough to speak up, but I wonder if the ecollar would be a good idea here.

Absolutely no need for an e-collar here IMO. No reason for it at all. For a young dog, I would use a padded leather harness made for the sport.

[debbiej]

that is what Jim said at the first. I just wondered because he was using the prong to correct him when he broke his sit.

[Skip]

Originally Posted by debbiej

that is what Jim said at the first. I just wondered because he was using the prong to correct him when he broke his sit.

But that was for obedience...young dogs don't get any correction in bitework (in my opinion).

[poohbearsmom]

Originally Posted by Skip

But that was for obedience...young dogs don't get any correction in bitework (in my opinion).

I concur. Confidence is a must with the bite work, and any corrections to a green dog would likely give you a lot of work to fix. The leash wasn't connected to the prong during the bitework, was it?

[flyballmom]

Debbie, in my...very novice...opinion. He's having too much control put on him during protection. One of the many things I've learned from starting an adult dog in this sport is, even tho they're adults, they need to be started like they are puppies, and brought along at whatever rate they can handle. I am just now asking Blitz to show any sort of focus/attention during protection, and we've been training for ~18 mos. So no, I don't think the e-collar is the answer. (You all know I've been using one to clean up her obedience...during Obedience. I asked Joel recently about using it for secondary ob. in protection and he said no, not yet.) Personally I think a pinch, to give you control when you need it, and a harness, to actually work him on, is the perfect combination. Just because no one at that club really uses one, doesn't mean YOU can't.
I also think it's high time he stopped working with other dogs. Again my very novice opinion, but with Boris being who he is, watching other dogs bark and slather might very well exacerbate his DA issues. Blitz is brought near the field as the dog before her finishes working. As that dog is being put up and the helper readies himself for her, I whisper "where is he?" She's learned what that phrase means, and now goes up on tippy toe and gets ready to work. If there were another dog out there, I have no idea what she'd do. From day one, Blitz worked alone on the field...treated as an adult that needed it's space, but trained as a baby who knew nothing. And this is with a trainer who very much believes in doing puppy circles. Just my 2 cents worth.

[debbiej]

thanks, I was confused about some stuff that went on. some pretty heavy correction for breaking a sit before going out. he let him bark as much as he wanted, he just couldn't break the sit. on the field he wasn't getting correction during bitework, but did get a correction for breaking his sit before Jim let him go. This is a sort of casual club. they stopped and several of the people who train then started "discussing" the best way to go about it.

earlier in the evening, during his long down, one of the trainers did some obedience with his dog to proof Boris and he stayed down.

he did fine in the puppy circle, there were only 3 other dogs, pretty spread out. He was excited and barking about the whole idea, but no corrections and he did really well "waiting his turn" although he was excited.

then he came out for the second time. that is when he got corrected for breaking his sit.
while waiting his turn.

yes, he kept the lead on his prong during the bitework and some of the other members called him on it and the session stopped.

I don't know enough to second guess these guys, I do know there are some things that they disagree amongst themselves on. One other time I have had a concern based on stuff I've read, and by the next week they said we were going to do something differently, and it was the very thing I was concerned about.

thank you guys for your help!

[Mick Trainer]

then he came out for the second time. that is when he got corrected for breaking his sit. while waiting his turn. Ok please understand that I havn't seen nor worked the dog so I wont out rightly second guess these trainers etc but for me I wouldn't have any correction given any where near the bite work at this stage unless the dog is extremely strong and I am looking to load the dog (which it doesn't sound in any way like they are). I would want the dog pulling you onto and off the field winding the dog up at every oppotunity, especially if he is having bite problems.

he kept the lead on his prong during the bitework Again I dont outrightly have an issue with a dog working on a prong but I wouldn't seek it at this age or development and when working Rotts at this stage prefer to have them in a leather agitation harness.

There are many ways to get a more solid grip on the dog but in short most desire to have the dog wind up and feel more comfortable thus having greater desire to bite. Anything that reduces that desire is generally not good.

Mick.

[debbiej]

thanks Mick. I have to use a lot of situational control to be able to hold him. I can handle him by keeping his excitement under control. If he gets wound before we go out to the field, I have a hard time physically holding him. at this point, I don't think it is dog aggression, but excitement. If I keep him under control from the start, like when we do long downs or the obedience, he is good. it is just when someone starts protection, the crated dogs in cars and trucks get worked up. I can take him out, walk him to the field under control if there is nothing else going on, but if he sees another dog working, I am afraid I won't be able to hold him. I think that is what they were trying to help me with. He did say that he needs to start adding some control now. again, thanks

[lblax]

Originally Posted by debbiej

thanks Mick. I have to use a lot of situational control to be able to hold him. I can handle him by keeping his excitement under control. If he gets wound before we go out to the field, I have a hard time physically holding him.

you really dont want any control so to speak now exciteman excitemant excitemant is what you want if you cant hold him post him or have someone back you up and help

[debbiej]

well we are doing good there, he is very excited, very very. I did ask for help and that's when he got corrections. I guess I will ask someone else to help me....wanna come to New Mexico for a visit?

[lblax]

Originally Posted by debbiej

well we are doing good there, he is very excited, very very. I did ask for help and that's when he got corrections. I guess I will ask someone else to help me....wanna come to New Mexico for a visit?

im doing mine all on the post the old backs just to bad.