Use of spray bottles in training

[moondog]

Originally Posted by Calin

Ok, I finally get it! The WAY in which a tool is USED is FAR more important than the tool itself....unless it's a different tool than the one YOU use. THEN it's useless.

Thanks for clearing that up for us.

What I've cleared up for you is that I don't use ANY method that pushes my dog away from me, regardless of the tool.

[Ayoka]

I think we ALL have our preferences for training and our reasons why and I'm also sure that we all don't follow our preferred "methods" 100% of the time

below are some interesting discussions from the mother of all clicker training, Karen Pryor...

Aversive or Punishment? | Karen Pryor Clickertraining

Hidden Aversives: Are You Punishing Unconsciously? | Karen Pryor Clickertraining

2 things she says are worth thinking about, no matter what your opinion on any training method is...1)while aversives stop they behaviour - they don't CHANGE it 2)Whenever an aversive seems like the "answer" to a "problem," find another way.

[Shelby427]

Originally Posted by Calin

When and if I'm using aversive methods, I prefer my dog not to know the aversive is coming from me. Which is why I always try to spray her from behind (Or have my husband do it) so she can't see where the water came from. I already said this before, of course. I'm guessing you'll either ignore me or try to insult me again to distract me from the issue. Sorry, but that's not going to work.

So let me ask YOU a question, when you're using a prong or a choke on your dog, does she realize you're choking her? After you cause her real physical pain (Rather than just annoy her with some water) where does she move in relationship to YOU? I bet she can't WAIT to crawl up into your lap, huh?
At least when my dog comes to me, she comes to me of her own free will. And not because I literally yanked her to me by the chain I had fastened around her neck. Which, I might add, is the cornerstone of operant conditioning. You would know this if you bothered to educate yourself fully on the theories before preaching them incorrectly. Operant conditioning is about giving the animal a CHOICE.

If you are so knowlegeable about all of this, then you'd know that a prong/choke collar doesn't inflict PAIN on the dog, if used correctly. I use a prong with Hudson and yes, he wants to still crawl into my lap. It's a TOOL to use for the time being to get him to walk nicely on a leash. I'm hoping to graduate from that tool. I have never used a spray device on my dogs, I redirect them and I train them.

[Canula2000]

I am a little late in this thread but I wanted to add, the one and only time I have ever used a spray bottle was with my male un-neutered rescue dogs. They hadn't ever learned not to mark in the house and the spray bottle worked for me with a few of these boys that didn't quite understand why I was upset at the stinks they made!
Yes, they were neutered and housetrained before they left my home.