directing that herding instinct? any and all help appreciated

[Hurricane]

Hurricane needs to learn the livestock rules. Tornado learned tham a long time ago, developed his herding skills to a point, and it became part of his job. This kept him from running or herding horses when it wasn't neccessary. Hurricane met the goat, and tried to wrestle her like a dog. He grabbed the scruff of her neck and just held her waiting for her to wrestle back! Well, we are planning to properly introduce Hurricane to Abby (the goat) on a leash. The first encounter was purely accidental. Anyway, he also met the horses in the pasture, and after barking at them for 3 days (while they ignored him) he got over it. He's not running horses in the pasture, which is a good thing. Yesterday, I rode my horse around the freshly plowed driveway (surrounded by 6' snow drifts). Hurricane just kept chasing and barking and would NOT shut up. I have no problems with the dogs chasing us and running around us while we ride. The horses don't have a problem either. Opie (my horse) tried to kick him once (I wish he had at least made some contact and made an impression). I think he's barking because the horse isn't in his pasture and Hurricane thinks he's getting loose, or isn't where he should be. We have a foal due in 2 months! We need to teach him when it's OK and when it's NOT OK to attempt to herd. I know these are herding dogs and we can't curb or prevent the desire, so I need to know how to direct it. Hurricane just isn't as fast (I hesitate to say he isn't as smart) as Tornado is. How can I spell out for him what's appropriate and what's inappropriate? The techniques I used with Tornado will never work with Hurricane as the 2 dogs think so differently!

[myrotti2002]

I found this a little funny since the other day we took Ceaser and Boomer to the park..And there were 3 horses in an area designated for riding..Ceaser came out of his collar and started for them luckily the fence was too little for him to get through. The horses and their owners were a little upset needless to say. :( I hope you get a good response since this will benifit alot of us who have furbabies that are still cowboys/girls at heart (snicker..snicker)

[Judi W]

Not all horses are tolerant of being chased and barked at by dogs, nor should they need to be. We have a lawsuit in my area right now because of dogs running out at a rider and horse. The lady riding was dumped and seriously injured and yes, the owners of the dogs are liable. Had the horse run into traffic or been injured in any way, they would be liable for that also. Herding and chasing are two different things and should not be confused with one another. The corrections and training are the same as for any other misbehavior.

[WorkinDogz]

Very often people confuse herding instinct from prey instinct.

It only takes one trip to a duck pond to pick out the dogs who would like to round up the flock and those who would like to eat the flock.

Unfortunately; owners would like to think the dog would only herd them....

Hurricane;

If your horse "connects"...you're dog will know it...and you'll probably have a pretty hefty vet bill for ortho surgery to fix the spot the connection was made.

[Joanne in NJ]

Uh huh, Speak from experience here. Eleven weeks in the apparatus with external pins and around $1600 later, Brandon doberman is lucky to still have his leg. The bone was not only broke, it was split. About a quarter inch lower and he'd be three-legged. Course, He could have gotten kicked in another spot.

Entirely my fault, and now I have a dog that's crazed with fear. He was howling his agony to the sky and that's not something he's going to forget real soon.

Did it teach him something? Sure, it taught him to redouble his efforts to frighten away what scared (and hurt) him.

Only comment from the owner of the horse.... Why didn't you just put him down???......

[ March 01, 2001: Message edited by: Joanne in NJ ]

[Hurricane]

I'm positive it's a herding instinct. He has herded the horses in the feild, and when they are where he wants them he leaves them alone. As a matter of fact, he hasn't even bothered the horses in the pasture for a while. I'm positive that he was concerned that the horse was "running away". As in, my horse wasn't in the feild where he belongs. The next day, the horses really did get out, and he was one of the first to let me know. The horses meandered down the road a ways. Once I got them back in the driveway, Tornado and Hurricane both kept them from leaving the property. (There are 6' snow banks on either side of the driveway.) Anyway, my horse is extremely tolerant of dogs, even when they are barking, most of the time. After a while, of course, it begins to annoy him. He will show this by picking up a hind foot and waving it gently. gently enough that I certainly wouldn't be hurt if he were to hit me with it. He then proceeds to the kicking out part. I'm sure he could hit anything he chooses to aim at, but he seems to prefer to kick out rather aimlessly.

What I have been doing is allowing him to follow Tornado while he moves the horses from one pasture to another. This morning was amazing. He ran the horses up to the high pasture and stopped at the gate as they moved on in to the round bale. We have also ridden out in the yard again, and he was much better behaved. He did follow us around, but he wasn't barking, which kept everyone (even the horses) happy. I suppose I will continue letting Tornado teach him the job, and then start working him alone. With Tornado, all it took was making herding part of his job to keep him from herding when I didn't want him to. Being half Aussie, this was extremely easy for him to pick up. If Hurricane coontinues like he has this week, we won't be having any more problems. I would still love to hear tips for training herding dogs. What I'm doing appears to be working, but I have no clue whether it's correct or not. As long as Tornado can see where I'm pointing, he gets the horses there.

[Eagle]

""It only takes one trip to a duck pond to pick out the dogs who would like to round up the flock and those who would like to eat the flock.""

I am sorry for laughing so hard at this, but pheobus wouldn't do either.. she would run into the pond, turn around and look at us with the, "well you gunna toss some stones for me to chase or not look"

Now take the water out of the equasion, and she would run head first into the flock, then get scared to death, and run back.

she is so vicious