brutal trainer

[Leader]

Michelle, I just couldn't read to the end of your post; GET OUT QUICK AND NEVER LOOK BACK!

It made me sick. When a pup starts they should be educated with TLC and a firm hand but that by NO MEANs means that kind of rough handling.

Find someone who deosn't need to prove his or her virility through dogs but who respects both thep and their handlers/owners/parents.

Keep looking you are sure to find something worth while. Are you living in Italy? if so it might be the same system as here in France, you join a club and take part in the obedience for free. But you can usually try the club once or twice and they are always outside, even in cities.

The very best of luck and keep us up to date,

[Burnsway]

WOW!!!!!

Although I do believe in some physical punishment this was way to extreme way to fast. Both guys sounded to me as if they had mocho problems and were intiseing the dog from the very beginning, They should befriend your dog at first. Then all other measures should be used befor physical punishment. Im sorry If some people believe a good spanking is wrong once in a while but I do practice this only after all other measures have been takin. I have only twice had to swat my puppy in 5 months.....and both times it hurt the rolled up tv guide more then the puppy..;-((its the noise of the paper not the swat they dont like)..NEVER USE HANDS!!!

There are alot of great trainers out there so dont give up. I personaly perfer to train basics at home but my dog shows little aggression. If your puppy is showing to much aggression to early dont panic and just get into a good program fast.

I would also make sure the trainer loves rotties and works mainly with that breed so they understand them. Were these guys just rottie trainers or train other dogs? Sounds to me like they were showing fear of the breed by the macho stare down contest...eeeeeeeerrrrrr GOOD LUCK!

[Lora Lee]

Sorry to hear about your bad experience, and I believe you did the right thing..leave.

Your dog does perceive a look in the eye as a stare down, and you can work with him. Build his confidence with strangers. The worst thing you can do is not take him out because he's behaving that way. He may be going through a fearful stage, so it's very important it is a STAGE, not permenant. Get him over it.

Correct him however you want when he growls, or jumps up, but time it perfectly. Be aware and waiting so you don't miss a second. Meet as many people as you can with him, and set him up with a few friends or co-workers.

Get involved in a Basic OB class where you can work with the dog, and meet new people in a controlled safe environment. Have fun, he'll end up enjoying it :) :)

[Anja Bear]

You did the right thing.. No one will ever lay a hand on Anja like that. They call themselves trainers.. Find a reputable training class in your area.. Good luck.

[ajaxsdad]

NOBODY, I MEAN NOBODY, TOUCHES MY DOG! I don't give a &*&*^% how many years experience they have, what types of titles they've won, or how big they are!

[Elijah's Mom]

I am so sorry that you and your dog had such a horrible experience! There must be somewhere in your area that believes in positive training methods-don't give up. I am so lucky that I live very near to the finest training facility in our area. We have been going there for a year-it has been a very positive experience for Elijah and for me. I have never seen abuse towards any of the dogs-that is just totally uncalled for. Make some phone calls and ask others about places to train. Even if you have to travel a distance to do the training it is well worth the time and trouble-best of luck to you.

[Mattweiser]

Originally posted by Burnsway:
[QB]

I would also make sure the trainer loves rotties and works mainly with that breed so they understand them. Were these guys just rottie trainers or train other dogs? Sounds to me like they were showing fear of the breed by the macho stare down contest [QB]

I agree 100%.....

I have learned that few trainers are actually experienced with Rottweilers, not only do Rottweilers require a special kind of owner, but a special kind of trainer also!!!

Good Luck, don't give up on trainers... just research the next one.. I also would attend a class or two w/o the dog, just to observe..

-Matt

[Hope]

I noticed that you reside in Italy. I miss every moment that I am away from such a beautiful country. BUt, I have to say that this sounds like a cultural situation.

Being Italian bred and born, I will not say that all Italians beat the heck out of their dogs, but I do have an educated and experienced view on this. My father also beat the "fear" of life into our dogs when we were younger, mainly our dobermans. He almost lost his family jewels on one occassion after hitting our male dobi very hard when the dog went nuts around another dog. The dog left a beautiful bite mark with all of his upper teeth in my father's inner groin that took months to heal. My father's view on training dogs was that if they did not fear you, they did not respect you, period, end of story.


Now I just got back from Italy a few months ago and I never once saw someone treat an animal in such a manner, but I have to say that other cultures, such as Italians tend to have a different view of dogs. I think that most gaulk at how we treat our dogs like children.


Again, that is not to say that all Italians are bad and all Americans are great people who treat their dogs like they are royalty. I am simply stating that different cultures do not view dogs like we do here, and thus they do not associate that striking a dog is as bad as it really is in reality.


Now, since you realize that this is a horrible way to treat a dog, I would definitely be careful about who you allow near your dog from here on in. Now, this could also be difficult for another cultural dilemma. I know Italians don't like to take their dogs to be trained as they tend to have the mentality that "a dog will listen to his master and if he does not, you don't have much of a dog". So, this means that such a machismo mentality leaves many people who will not take the time to train their dogs in a formal situaiton.


Dieselblu, I will tell you one thing that is wonderful about Italians, they have vets that can be the end of the world, and they can often be quite intelligent in their training capailities.


When I had to take my Mondino in for a vet check in Livorno, yes even in Livorno they have good vets, this vet was so incredible in his understanding of dog behavior. If I were you, take your dog to your favorite vet and ask them where to go, you could be suprised.


Now again, I don't mean to insult you, please don't take anything in post to be abusive, I am simply giving you my view on the experiences I have had since I have lived in Italy and now live in the US. Anyway, if I insult you, than I do the same to myself as I am not far removed from my Italian roots and I consider myself Italian before American. Good luck with your endeavors.

[ May 04, 2001: Message edited by: Franco ]

[Ahmed]

There was a really good post a while back by one of the highly experienced trainers on this board. The subject was 'building confidence'. I hope someone can find the link for you. It would seem to me there is alot you can do yourself to build his confidence in different situations. Of course, workign with a good trainer would be great, but you can learn how to work on his confidence in controlled settings in the right way.

[dieselblu]

Hello everyone! I'm new to this forum, and to Rottweiler ownership as well, and I wanted to share a nightmarish experience I had a few weeks ago with a potential trainer. My dog is a 5 month-old male, very sweet (he absolutely ADORES all other dogs and children, is not in the least food aggressive or possessive of his toys- he even loves to go the the vet, and will kiss him repeatedly while he's getting shots!). But several times during one particular day, he jumped slightly towards and snapped at three different men in the street, ALL of whom happened to be approaching us very quickly. He also jumped up to shoulder height of one man who was entering my building (who was also very suddenly and rapidly turning the corner, practically colliding into us) as we were leaving it, and he did snap at his shoulder, but I don't believe that he bit him (the man, oddly, said nothing and glided past us). Slightly concerned about his reaction to adult males, the next day I went to meet a trainer who had been recommended to me by casual acquaintances.
The assistant trainer was there to greet us, and he began not by attempting to befriend my dog Diesel, but by staring directly into his eyes. At this, Diesel began to growl at him, and the man exclaimed, "Ah, to be this aggressive at only 5 months of age! PERHAPS you are just in the nick of time..." I instinctively did not like this man or the dimly-lit surroundings in which the training was to occur, and began to question him about his methods, finally asking him point-blank if they incorporated violence into their sessions. "Well, while I PREFER to work using tugs at the leash, not all training can be accomplished in such a mild way..." I stopped listening and started preparing a graceful way of declining to sign up. But then the head trainer came in, and all of the following occurred within about three seconds:
The trainer, enormous, walked in and gave his hand to Diesel, who gave it a little lick. But then he too began to stare into Diesel's eyes, and Diesel started growling, upon which the trainer began SLAPPING HIM IN THE FACE. Diesel backed up, growling dangerously, and then lunged toward the trainer, coming to a stop right in front of him and snapping- and the trainer SMASHED him in the mouth as hard as he could.
I yelled "NO NO NO!", took Diesel and turned around and ran out the door, deserting my husband to deal with the aftermath of this explosive scene.
It was all extremely upsetting, to say the very least, and as a consequence I have all but sworn off seeking outside help in training, preferring to try my own hand at it rather than subject my dog to a stranger's brutality. I would love to hear what those of you with more experience than I make of the situation. I had always heard that staring into a strange dog's eyes is perceived as a threat by the dog, is that not so? And if it is, I cannot imagine what it was that would make a trainer approach my dog in an aggressive way.
And as far as the episodes of snapping at men in the street go, can that not be attributed to the fact that they were practically running towards Diesel and myself?
I apologize for the length of my message!

Thanks so much,
Michelle
Italy

[Mojave's Mom]

DEAR GOD! What in the WORLD were those people THINKING!?!?! I am in no way a training or behavioral expert but those people were COMPLETELY off base with their "teaching" methods.

Unfortunetely, places like these do exist with these types of people, but not all of them are like this! Please don't be discouraged. Look around, talk to friends and your vet and get some referrals. Best yet, talk to your pup's breeder as breeders can be an excellent source of information. The value of training in an organized obedience class is so great, that I strongly encourage you to do your best in finding one near you and enrolling yourself and your dog in it. There ARE good people out there...just gotta look close and hard for 'em.

Good luck! And please keep us updated!

[Ethár]

DEAR Dieselblu:

Please do not be offended of what I will say now, try to see it from a creative point of view....

I DIDN'T LIKE THE WAY THIS TRAINERS CHALLENGED YOUR DOG - It was not right (why didn't you ask why they did it. If they had some reason for it)

BUT.....
When reading your message about your dog jumping up on people, lunging at them etc is NOT acceptable behaviour. Not even if they walk towards you very fast!!!!!!!!!

Stop making excuses for your dogs bad behaviour and start to train, train, train environmental training (you can read about environmental training and activities at my website
http://w1.421.telia.com/~u42121894/totte/english.htm

You will get the dog you deserve - if you don't do anything about him now when a young puppy he will soon start to do more "strange" things.

It is WELL KNOWN that rottweilers are the nicest between 8 weeks and approx. 7 months.... after that they give you hell IF you have not trained certain things before.

If I were you I would go back to the trainer WHITHOUT the dog and have a serious discussion with him - finding out WHY he acted like that (maybe he saw something that you don't want to see about your dogs behaviour).

Don't be fooled by the "qute, niiiiice puppy". He will soon be a BIG, BAD, WOLF if you don't act in the right way.

After the SERIOUS discussion with the trainer you can decide if you don't want to attend his training-classes.

THIS IS MY ADVICE - knowing since having a male rottweiler almost two years old (and have had some problems before, until I met my wonderful trainer. Okey, she is very consequent and I too misunderstood her in the beginning).

Use your common sense after discussed with the trainer (or another one).

[jewel]

Anyone who "beats" thier animal, or anyone else's, is VERY WEAK himself. What kind of man does he think he is?

Anyway, start correcting that behaviour NOW!! You can do it your self, or find a good trainer. What your dog does, is not good, and needs correction. If you dont, you will have worse problems in the future. Good luck.

May I also add, that that guy is dam lucky that it wasnt me..he would have had 5 rolled up, and 150 lbs behind it right in the smaker!! ;)

[RottiMomCT]

"I had always heard that staring into a strange dog's eyes is perceived as a threat by the dog, is that not so? "

YES - I have gone with my husband and another volunteer while they were doing evaluations for the Rottie Rescue group we all volunteer for. The very 1st thing they do before even removing the dog from the kennel is stand there and stare at them, not saying a word. Next they squat to their level and stare again. Not saying that this would flunk the dog, but they DO approach the dog during the rest of the eval alot more cautiously (IF they decide to continue)!

I stare down my male once in a while while we're playing and I usually end up getting a face full of either sloppy kisses, or he just sits there and looks right back at me.

I have to ask too, what did your husband do?? I know that mine would have smacked the trainer twice as hard as the trainer hit the dog, or I'm not sure even the guy would have had a chance to hit him - he would he jumped up and put a stop to that as soon as they guy started the staredown....

That is NO WAY to train a dog, nor is it an appropriate way to establish a training relationship between you and the trainer. You chould file a complaint agianst him - you had witnesses didn't you (besides you and your husband??)

[Judi W]

I suspect that the trainer was testing the dog's defense and nerves. Whether this is appropriate at a first meeting is debatable. (I would not suggest it as that sets up an antagonistic relationship for future work)

As to eye contact with dogs. Most dogs are able to discern the difference between soft and friendly eye contact and hard challenging eye contact. Rottweilers are especially adept and intuitive in this regard. Eye contact in and of itself should not be considered hostile.

I agree that a five month pup should not be exhibiting aggression towards strangers and that indeed he needs socialization and discipline. Ethar is correct, it is not going to get better without action on your part. Contact your local kennel club for a list of trainers, go and observe them without your dog. Then go from there.