Rose's first night of basic obedience

[Teena]

We signed Rose up for classes. Last night dogs were left at home & dicussed the class with the trainer.
These were some interesting points. These we didn't come across in Axels's classes.
She says you must walk you dog daily, not only for exercise but to build a bond with your dog, that you can't get in any other way. She says this builds a trust between you & the dog.
We were told only that it was good exercise before.
She hates prong (pinch as she called them) collars. I was asking her to show me how to fit one correctly on Axel later.
She says it's a negative enforcment and we shouldn't use them. It causes pain & the dog will lash out at the pain. That we can train tigers and bears with positive training surely we can train a dog.
She echoed working dog's idea of confidence flows down the lead. She says dog's can smell the hormones from your skin, tension, fear, confidence, ect.
Now i'm confused since so many people advocate prong collars.
I told her it's not to hurt the dog , it's a way to give it a correction. She says NO!

[Chantal]

Did you ask her about the hacking and coughing they do with a regular collar? that can't be good for them! At least with the pinch collar they don't pull more than once. i've also heard that dogs can get trachea damage from the collar pulling on their neck.

[LucyJ]

I agree with your trainer except for the part about the prong collar. If Rose is not a big puller a regular choke would probably be fine. But if she's a strong puller the prong would be much easier on BOTH of you.

Before I used a prong I tried it on my own arm (people necks and even most arms don't have nearly the amount of muscle a Rotti has in its neck ;) ) and I was confident enough with my little test to use one. I use one with my 90 lb male and 70 lb female because they both pull, and neither one has showed anything but respect for the prong. Neither has showed any pain or discomfort with it as opposed to the awful coughing and hacking with the choke that Chantal spoke of.

So basically I'd say decide for yourself. If you've got her under control with the choke then stick with it. If you want more control using a gentler correction, go with the prong. Hope that helps and good luck with your class. :)

[suzanne611]

Lucy, before I put a prong on Boris, I did what you did I put it on my arm. i would not be able to manage 115 lbs of rottweiler without it. I don't think I would ever use a choke again. That horrible sound of choking really bothers me. Where is Rose's obedience class? They would not let me use a prong in Petsmart classes so I told them thanks but no thanks.

[Teena]

Yes, Rose is going to Petsmart for classes.
I guess it's a company policy or something.(no prongs)
I just got back from the vet's for Rose's last round of shots.
The Vet & i discussed the prong collar, she says she used one to train her dogs.
I think i might get one and try it. Axel is okay walking now, much better than he used to be. However, it's for those little things that have way of popping up on your walk, i want the prong. Say a motorcycle comes whizzing by, a car backfires, ect things that might startle your dog & you. I would like to KNOW i have control over him, in any situation.

[Chloesmom]

We take Chloe on 2 kinds of walks - fun walks and work walks. Fun walks use a regular nylon collar and a flexi-lead. She's ahead of me, behind me, around me. If she stops to sniff, we use 'leave it', and then keep going. We don't have too much of a control problem ('cept yesterday when she pulled me down after seeing a squirrel). But usually these walks are just that - fun.

For the work walk we use a prong collar and short training lead. Chloe walks at heel and we practice all her commands. If she gets distracted and falls out of the heel she gets a short pop, as we were instructed, just enough to get her attention again. We have no problems with this collar or her behavior when we use it. I don't believe this collar is supposed to be used for an out of control, lunging dog. I think it could hurt them if that was their behavior to begin with. But with Chloe, the all over feeling of the prongs are an attention grabber, not punishment. Her skin is so thick and her neck so strong it doesn't hurt her in the least.

Our trainer did not recommend starting the puppies too young with the prong, however. Chloe began with the prong during basic obedience at about 7-8 months.

[suzanne611]

teena, I just knew it had to be Petsmart. I love them for letting Boris come in and socialize, but truthfully I don't think their new training policy is terrific, plus I don't think they get really good trainers to work for them. you cannot apply one principle of training for every breed much less every dog.

[RottnKid1]

Around here, we have very few places to go for obedience courses. Of the ones we do have, I don't know of any who will allow a prong collar and most won't even allow a choke. The agility courses don't allow prongs or chokes either. We can use a flat collar, Halti, Gentle Leader or harness.

[Judi W]

Their policy is based upon public perception and the fact that most of their training students are pet owners. If that is where you need to go, go along with what you need to do to get your dog out and socialized with a bit of training thrown in, just make sure you have a good pocket full of treats to compensate for the lack of being able to give a good correction. If you will put your slip collar up behind the ears, you will have a good control spot for it. (You'll need to practice keeping it there, but it is possible). Then use your pinch on your own time away from the class for some more serious work. Make sure you put it on properly and fit it correctly.

[Ilovemypuppy]

Prong collars are inhumane and should be out-lawed. Put one around your neck and get someone to give you and 'sharp correction". We use a harness and 26 foot flexi for fun walks and train with a halti. All fun , no pain, lessons remembered.

[Teena]

Judy that's just the trouble. I was wanting someone to show me me exactly how to fit it & show me how to use it. :(
I don't want to use it wrong.

[WorkinDogz]

Originally posted by Jory:
<STRONG>Prong collars are inhumane and should be out-lawed. Put one around your neck and get someone to give you and 'sharp correction". We use a harness and 26 foot flexi for fun walks and train with a halti. All fun , no pain, lessons remembered.</STRONG>

You're entitled to your opinion Jory; however...it's misguided and quite frankly..wrong.

Any training tool; including the halti can fall into the "inhumane" catagory if used incorrectly and inappropriately.

It's the responsibility of the owner to educate themselves on proper useage of any collar or training device.

[Lora Lee]

Originally posted by Jory:
<STRONG>Prong collars are inhumane and should be out-lawed. Put one around your neck and get someone to give you and 'sharp correction". </STRONG>

Jory,
You don't give a "sharp correction" with this type of collar, it is self correcting without you giving a tug. This type of collar is VERY HUMANE, if used correctly it can be the proper tool in training.

Teena, how old is your dog? I don't believe training should start with a prong collar, it irks me to see a young pup with one one...and usually it's loose!!!

There are other types of collars you can use for training such as chin lead, or even a flat tag collar will work fine if your dog responds to a tug alright....so it depends on the dog.

Training takes time, it's not an overnight thing...don't become quick to have that perfect dog.

[Teena]

He's is 10 months old. I know all about things taking time.
I forgot to handle his feet regularly, so when time came to clip nails, we had a real battle about that. I took things in my hand & handled his feet daily. AT first all i could do was touch them briefly, before he would jerk it away. afTER weeks of touching,touching, touching & handling feet he now okay with me doing his nails. This didn't happen over night, it took alot of work on BOTH of our parts.
I'd rather not be drug down the street when he sees something that triggers his prey drive, or something sudden happens that startles him.
So far this HASN'T happened, he is doing much better at his walking, but i would just like to try it & see how he reacts to one.

[Lora Lee]

Originally posted by Teena:
<STRONG> but i would just like to try it & see how he reacts to one.</STRONG>

DOES HE NEED IT??? Do you have problems controlling your dog while on lead??