martingale collar on puppy?

[alice's mommy]

Hi all!

We've had a lot of discussion here lately on walking puppies that pull and what is acceptable/not acceptable training tools for puppies.

What is the thought on Martingale collars? Are those less harmful than prongs for puppies? Do they help at this age (Arthur is around 17 weeks) or are they something that should still be waited on? From what I've seen online, they look like normal collars with only a tiny bit of that choke-chain section - would this be like a prong-lite kind of collar? Would they even have any effect on a rottie puppy?

Any thoughts would be appreciated!

[brunie's mom]

One of the trainers that we did classes with was a big believer in the martingale collar. She was English and very into positive training. I did try one on Baxter when he was a bit older...probably around a year old, and not all that impressed.

How much does Arthur weigh now? about 40 lbs? He's getting stronger and pulling harder now? The martingale may give you what you need to get a bit more control of him now. Make sure it's fitted properly too, I've noticed people have them on too loose and they tend to slip off. I honestly don't think they give enough control for a full grown Rottweiler.

What does your trainer say? what do they prefer you use?

Gina

[Da05128]

I have never found a martingale to give me any more control than a flat collar - it may be the sound of the chain that is more effective than anything. If you are going to use one please make sure you take it off when you are done your walk/training.
I train with a CKC club and we just had a devestating incident involving a dog wearing a martingale collar. Two dogs were playing together and during play one of the dog's teeth got caught up in the martingale chain. The dog that was caught began to panic and thrash around - because the martingale doesn't have a buckle for quick release the owners couldn't get it off their dog and the dog ended up being strangled. It was a horrific situation so we are cautioning all our members not to leave martingales on their dogs.

[jlaack]

If you are going to use one please make sure you take it off when you are done your walk/training.
I train with a CKC club and we just had a devestating incident involving a dog wearing a martingale collar. Two dogs were playing together and during play one of the dog's teeth got caught up in the martingale chain. The dog that was caught began to panic and thrash around - because the martingale doesn't have a buckle for quick release the owners couldn't get it off their dog and the dog ended up being strangled. It was a horrific situation so we are cautioning all our members not to leave martingales on their dogs.

I hope this caution is also given to users of choker and pinch collars as neither has a quick release and for the former there is no limit to how tight the collar can get.

I use a martingale on my dog and when our eldest was able to take daily walks I used to walk both my Rotties on martingales. I weigh about 100 pounds... I think training is more important than the actual collar. If you are having difficulty walking your dog you must get him into training classes or private lessons to work on that. Even using a prong, gentle leader or e-collar will not be an instant solution to a pulling dog. It is the training that is key.

[alice's mommy]

Arthur has been in training since I got him at 9 weeks. We've even doubled up on classes some weeks when one class ended two weeks AFTER the new session began, so that there wouldn't be a delay between sessions. :)

My trainer (and all trainers in my town) do not believe in any kind of "punishment" training equipment. At all. That means no prongs, martingales, chokes. They are incredibly gung-ho for the head gear stuff, though, which Arthur is instantly able to remove, or gets so upset by (even with spending time desensitizing him to it) that I find those to be less humane.

At this point, I'm not actually needing to get a martingale, or upgraded collar like that, as Arthur and I are doing better on our walks with the sprints/walk and zig-zagging...I really was more curious for the future.

[alice's mommy]

Oh, brunie's mom:
Sorry, didn't answer your question! lol! My trainer prefers flat collars for training class (which is fine) and then any kind of head gear - I'm sure I have the names wrong, but like Halti's, or Gentle Leaders. We had quite a discussion on the usage of prongs for older dogs not being inhumane if used correctly (she was against).

[linedog]

I have found a martingale useful at times, more for control than correction The area I do a lot of socialization and some training is a community college, an excellent mixture of people walking dogs, bicycles, students, baby strollers, etc.

prey drive being what it is, and the need to teach control to the dog ,has led to some pretty exciting episodes in this locale. when I see a possible situation developing, which is usually a good training situation also I usually sit the dog at my side, slide my hand under the chains at the back of the neck and hold them from breaking. no break-- then a "good girl" and a treat or a toss of the ball.In these situations I can't and won't use a chain or nylon choke and a prong is out of the question. I can't and haven't forseen all situations that might trigger this almost instantaneos "go for it " drive,I risk serious injury to the dog using anything other than a wide collar or as wide as will fit martingale.
Usually by a year of age the dog is on a wide leather agitation type collar, with a harness for tracking.
i will agree a martingale is little different than a standard collar,I just find that when I need to quickly "get a grip" on things , it is easier to do so.

[brunie's mom]

Originally Posted by alice's mommy

Oh, brunie's mom:
Sorry, didn't answer your question! lol! My trainer prefers flat collars for training class (which is fine) and then any kind of head gear - I'm sure I have the names wrong, but like Halti's, or Gentle Leaders. We had quite a discussion on the usage of prongs for older dogs not being inhumane if used correctly (she was against).

I'm not too impressed with the head gear stuff. To me it does not teach the dog to walk properly...and I've seen dogs that are 8-9 years old still wearing them. They've never learned how to walk properly...only to walk, using the Gentle Leader or Halti.

The collars, choke chains, prongs,etc., should all be tools ...with training and the use of the tools....your dog should be able to learn to walk nicely...and eventually be fine on a flat collar.

I don't think the prong collar is any more inhumane (on a mature dog), then a GL, as long as the prong is fitted properly. I think many of the positive only instructors tend to be very closed minded about using other tools for training.

Gina

[Kandi]

If you don't want to use a martingale, and I agree, it should be removed when you are done with on leash work, gentle leader makes a harness where you hook the leash in front at the dog's chest. It works like the headgear, only it turns the whole body instead of just the head. That works very good as well, at least it did for my one girl, until I left it one overnight and she chewed it, but that's another story. I think it is gentle leader that makes it, but not sure. But I do know it works very well for the dog that likes to pull.

[David Feliciano]

For leash breaking puppies, I love to use nylon slip leads. They are like a choke chain but lighter and they move more freely. It take experience to use them correctly, but they are very effective and humane.

[CanineCoach]

I think the nylon slip leads are a good place to start as well, though I have found them a bit difficult to find. You should always start at the lowest end of control and work your way up from there. And, as Gina said, these are all management tools not to be used in the place of actual behavior modification/obedience training. Remember, these guys get "collar smart" really quick and can figure out when don't you have a piece of equipment on that helps to control them!

[lilabet]

I use the all nylon martingales on all of my dogs. Premier makes them and they come in a huge variety of colors. I really like them and when fitted properly, the dog can't slip out of them. I have an almost 3 year old rottie and she has worn nothing but a martingale since I adopted her at 10 months, completely untrained. I also have several pit bulls who also only wear martingales. I have used other collars in the past (chain and nylon chokes, prongs, buckles, halties, etc.), but have come to prefer these.