collars

[debbiej]

I have not had a puppy for a long time, and never a working puppy. but I have recently learned that there are better ways to bring up a pup than the "typical" puppy class methods. squelching behaviors instead of shaping them is not the best way to raise a confident dog. there is a lot of wonderfully helpful material here on how to inspire a pup to good behavior. I would think 13 weeks is quite young, and positive teaching methods more appropriate now than a lot of correction.

[chevy boy]

Thank You Mick you were very helpful. I like my trainer but I think she is a little hard. She has been training for 46 years and is very wise but im thinking im not going to put either collar on my boy just yet. She says not to use voice when he is mouthy just put him in his crate for 5 min, sometimes that works but I find with my boy if I make him look at me and tell him in a soft voice NO he will stop if at this point he wont stop I make him take a small time out and then that works. Im not as concern about the nipping and bitting because he is not doing it agressively its out of wanting to play. I think I will stick to the good old nylon collar for now since he is doing well walking on it. Thank you so much Tina

[UnclLou]

Originally Posted by debbiej

I've asked the trainers about ecollars, they aren't against them, just don't want Boris to wear it during training. The comment that made the most sense, is "don't you want him to know the command and correction is coming directly from you?"

I've never understood some answers to this question. I want the dog to think that the correction "came from the universe." What advantage is there to have him know that it came from you?

Originally Posted by debbiej

Even though we followed the e collar trainers instruction for introducing the collar in a manner that is to avoid being "collar wise", He knows when that collar is on, and his behavior changes-he becomes more "careful". I don't know if this is a good thing or not.

Generally it's a bad thing. Especially if you want him to perform when it's not on.

Originally Posted by debbiej

on the long down at training, I've put him out there with and without the ecollar, he does about the same both ways. Yet at home, if I know the neighbors dog is loose, I put his ecollar on because if that dog comes on our property, I can depend on a recall with a "reminder" if need be.

I think I see one reason that he's become "collar smart." That is you perceive a potential problem and put it on him. I put mine on my dogs when I get up in the morning and take them off in the evening. This is especially noticeable to the dog if you inject some emotions on your part, into the situation. It's probable that you do this when you know the neighbor's dog is loose.

Originally Posted by debbiej

I've asked the guys at training, and they just say whatever works just no e collar during the development of his fun and excitement in the protections part of training.

Here is another reason that the dog is collar smart. Put it on and leave it on. You don't have to press any buttons or even turn it on, but the dog should come to disregard it.

[UnclLou]

Originally Posted by debbiej

I used it to overcome his inattention to me in certain situations involving other dogs running around, or out of control, and my lack of control caused him to become over excited.

Many people wait until they have a problem and only then, do they go to the Ecollar. I prefer to introduce before there's a problem and use it to teach OB.

Originally Posted by debbiej

I guess because I know none of the collars I depend on are allowed in a trial, be it obedience, agility or schutzhund, I am trying to look ahead to how to take steps without them.

Here's an article I wrote on weaning the dog off the Ecollar. Http://loucastle.com/wean.htm

[UnclLou]

Originally Posted by lblax

youve got good advice from mick but the bottom line is if you want to survive in the club your in you do as others do unless you dont trust there judgemant or you feel there decisions are detrimental to the training of your dog. so it boils down do you trust these people your training with??? they may very well have reasons that are unseen by everyone here as to why boris shouldnt have an e-collar on in the field. if you feel the need to second guess your clubs techniques then move on to a differant club or venue.

There's something to be said for "fitting" in with your training group. But more important is getting your dog to perform. I'm reminded of a SAR worker who could not get her dog to recall away from elk. She'd tried every method known to her trainer and the rest of her team. None of them worked. I started helping her via email but on training days she left the Ecollar off her dog to avoid conflict with the rest of her team who assured her that it would "ruin" her dog. Soon she had a recall away from the elk. Her team complimented her on how well her dog was working. After about six weeks of working the dog with the Ecollar she showed up at training with it on. The rest of the team again told her that she was going to "ruin her dog." But she told them that she'd been working him with the Ecollar for the past six weeks. When the rest of the team saw how the Ecollar, used properly, gave her complete control, several of them started using it. Soon every member of the team was using it except one. That one member was the only one that did not have a decent recall.

[UnclLou]

Originally Posted by debbiej

Mick, he feels that boris knows when he has the collar on. and I agree from behavior I have seen. he wants no intimidation, I guess would be the word. no hinderance, no hesatancy in the excitement.

I think he's got it completely backwards. I think that the dog may show a bit of hesitancy at first (especially if you're just using the Ecollar as a correction tool, as most do) but then he'll get over it and forget it's there. That's what you want in the long run anyway, for the dog to ignore it.

Originally Posted by debbiej

maybe I've done the e collar training wrong, but his behavior is different when he is wearing the collar. here is an example. If boris and my other dog will glimpse each other out of the window they usually start barking at each other. if boris does not have his collar on, he gets really wound up. If he does have it on, he goes into another room, avoiding the stimulis of the other dog "picking a fight".

I'd say that you've not used the Ecollar as I advocate. As to whether that's "wrong" I can't say. But it doesn't seem to have given you what you want. Based on that, I'd call it wrong. You might want to take a look at my articles and see if they make sense to you.