training "wait" and "stay"

[cerulean]

I am very impressed when a dog has great boundary training, and I've read jlaak's posts on using a rope to define a boundary for the dog to "wait" or "stay" in. Can you recommend specific steps or techniques to get to that point ?? I understand the theory of training "stay", so what's the next step ?? and is "wait" different than "stay" ??

Or at least point me toward some good books ??

Our pup isn't born yet but I'm soaking up all the good info I can get, we plan on lots of positive reinforcement training... we live in a very rural area so there aren't many classes but we will go to whatever we can find.

[MShaw]

Originally Posted by cerulean

I am very impressed when a dog has great boundary training, and I've read jlaak's posts on using a rope to define a boundary for the dog to "wait" or "stay" in. Can you recommend specific steps or techniques to get to that point ?? I understand the theory of training "stay", so what's the next step ?? and is "wait" different than "stay" ??

Or at least point me toward some good books ??

Our pup isn't born yet but I'm soaking up all the good info I can get, we plan on lots of positive reinforcement training... we live in a very rural area so there aren't many classes but we will go to whatever we can find.

I don't mean to hijack the post, but wanted to say a couple of things.

First of all. When WE train ( i know some do it a little differently), STAY is when you put a dog in a sit, down, stand and tell them to stay. They stay there until you come back to them and give them a release command such as "free" or "ok." WAIT on the otherhand is telling them to listen up, cause you're gonna tell them to do something else. You'd put them in a sit/down/stand and WAIT, then walk away and call them, or throw a ball and they wait until you command a "fetch." We also use it when we come in from outside and its wet or snowy. She will sit on the rug, I'll say WAIT, get a towel, and then GIVE for each front paw, STAND and I'll wipe her backs, and then I usually tell her "drink" (cause she's a water fool, so this gives her a little water all the time instead of a bunch at once).

For a boundry type training, I would come up with a completely different command. Since they use flags with the invisible fence, we just used "NO FLAG." She only got shocked one time in the initial training and hasn't since. Every time she'd get close to a flag, we'd tell her "ahh ahh, no flag" in a harsh voice, and then PRAISE when they come back to you. I think its very possible to use the flag training without a wire, but it takes a lot of time either way.

We had flags up for 2 months (after the first month, we started removing every other flag once a week). We also walked her around the fence every day at least twice or 3 times, usually just every time we took her out since it was spring and every time she got close "ah ah no flag" and she'd come back and we'd praise.

I'm sure others can give you more insight, but that's what we've done and so far it works very well... good for you for learning in advance so you can make good decisions!

[Shelby427]

We trained Shelby without the use of anything. She has always just wanted to stay around us, no matter what, so we used "stay here." We've moved several times and she has always stayed in the yard. If she gets a whiff of something and her ears get perky, we just calmly say "stay here" and she will ignore the temptation. I don't know exactly how we did it, but we did! We bought a house recently and walked her around the 1 acre yard and kept saying "stay here" and when she'd go sniff something off our property, we'd remind her again and she'd comply.

Hudson is a completely different story and I'm not sure we'd be able to train him to stay in our yard. Which is fine with me anyways, he has a 40ft tie out (I'm out with them whenever they are out so he's never left unattended).

[jlaack]

Mshaw you are correct. Wait means do not proceed forward. Moving backward, side to side, siting, down all are acceptable. Stay to us also means do not move a muscle from the current command you were given.

Cerulan: how we trained the wait was to have the dog moving turn abruptly in front of our dog while giving the wait command. Most dogs will automatically stop moving at least for a second. We then release and praise. Continue to practice this upping the ante by increasing the distance you continue to move back after the block. If the dog moves forward as you start moving back, you can command wait again or if the dog isn't stopping or doesn't understand you can give a quick leash correction at a distance. We then introduced a visible barrier such as a rope (cones or something else that is visible also works). Practice same as before. You can then move on by using the leash for any corrections. At this point the dog should understand the concept and respond to the verbal (no need to physically cut them off). If the dog crosses the barrier with the leash you simply need to provide a leash correction to get them one step back from the barrier. We then moved on to doing this on a long line to really create the distance factor. We also proofed by using balls, toys, treats, food, dogs as distractions by taking these items through the OK area and crossing the boundary. We use wait often. Everytime we leave the physical door at the house, before our dog gets into the car, before he is allowed out of the car and before he can go to his food bowl to eat.

At our previous home in Bend, OR we had acreage that wasn't fenced so we simply used a very small 6"-1' rock wall to serve as the physical barrier in that under no circumstances can the dogs cross the barrier even if in pursuit of a herd of deer. I was recently introduced to the rope idea and I like it much better than the rocks. Since we are always using the same rope it is easy to transport (fits in a pocket) and by now our dog understands the meaning. Works great when visiting people in their homes.

It is very important that when you are done practicing or if you want the dog to cross the barrier you created that you release them with a verbal of some type, we use okay and a chin touch. Otherwise if they just cross it might confuse them a bit. For fun we sometimes practice this around town--we start jogging, I say wait but keep going, our dog will stop moving within one step.

Our dogs are very, very well trained to respect boundaries. There was one time where 3 dogs came into our yard and then crossed the rock wall and Magnus followed. For this reason, I am always 100% of the time actively supervising them when using wait. You can use whatever word you want for this command.

I hope this makes sense. Let me know if it doesn't or if you have questions about how I taught it. It took about 3-4 months for Magnus to be solid enough with this for me to trust him off leash in our yard.

[cerulean]

Wow, thank you to all of you. It makes a lot of sense and I'm eager to try it once we finally have our pup !!! ('course I may have a lot more questions then, it's one thing to get the theory and another to train it !!!)

thanks, thanks, thanks again.

[jlaack]

('course I may have a lot more questions then, it's one thing to get the theory and another to train it !!!)

Patience, lots of praise and be sure to diligently use a release once the boundary is okay to pass. It does take some time (for Magnus 3-4 months) and someone else can probably speak better to this (I have never had a puppy) but it is probably something you don't want to train as a puppy...? Any puppy owners have an opinion? For a pup you always want coming to you to be a good thing, not resulting in correction.