Clicker training!!!

[marianna]

Wow!!

I just wanted to share!
I took Röskva to a clicker workshop this weekend, I have been interested in this training method for a couple of yrs now but didnt want to start without a trainer.

The workshop was from 10am sat to 5 and again on sun. I am seeing unbeleivable changes in my girl. All of a sudden she is eager to work and learn. I take her with me to work and she whines and whines at me until I take out the clicker and then she gets really creative Starts offering all kinds of behavier in hope of a click, and she is so smart!!!!! I only enforce desireble behaveors and ignore what I do not like!!!

I was always a bit sceptic of using only the clicker, thought it would work on lots of dogs but not all and did not beleive that it was possible to train using only this method!

Well guys, I am a beleiver!!!! In only a couple of days she is much happier, the bond between us is already stronger and best of all is that she can really controll the pace of her learning. When she has had enuff she will go lie down. She is also completely exhausted after our sessions!!!

As soon as she is up she will go out to do her stuff, come in and eat then she sits in front of me whining for a session!!!!!


I just had to share

[Ayoka]

Awesome, I too am a novice in clicker training but a believer!! We did our "tricks" class with a clicker and loved it. Lately I've been using the "Clicker Training for Obedience" book by Morgan Spector and I'm loving it...Now I'm trying to incorporate his into our agility training...

Nothing like "thinking" to tire a dog out!

[Dieselpup]

Yup, I'm a believer, too. Unfortunately, thought, I don't have a teacher here, so I'm on my own.

I'm using an improvised clicker, but I just ordered Terri Arnold's Steppin up to Success and a clicker, so it should be here within the next two-three weeks. I CAN'T WAIT.

My Rottie, bless his heart, wasn't raised on clicker. I didn't know any better, and used what was available to me: jerk and pull. I used the clicker approach with my GSD bitch pup, and saw such a difference. So, I decided to incorporate the clicker with my 15 month old Rottie, and he loves it. I even had to re-teach him a few commands using the clicker.

I know that I'm not using "pure" clicker, but I'm hoping that as I buy new books my future dogs will have the benefits of the pure, real, shabang.

You guys are so lucky to have workshops! I'm a little envious

[spidey]

My current dog is my first clicker dog, and the difference is enormous. You can learn a lot from demonstration videos you can find online.

[mjfish]

I am trying this on my own (via articles and whatnot on the web) because I don't think the typical form of corrections are going to be the way to go with the Rottn Monster. I did a net search for classes in my area, and WOW are they expensive!!!! I am taking it slow so that I don't mess my dogs up while I'm learning the techniques myself.

Any major tips that stood out for you at the workshop?

[marianna]

The best thing the trainer tought was lots and lots of patience.....

For example, I started with clicking for eye contact......took her awhile to get the hang of it, then she seemed to understand and gave me great eyecontact a few times, got lots of c/t then all of a sudden she walked off and took a nap. I was going to go get her but the trainer stopped me, 2-3 min later she all of a sudden stood up and gave so much eyecontact that I added a "watch me" cue.

Same thing happened with a 12 week old pup in the class. The trainer was working on getting him to ring a bell on the floor.
After about 5 min he wandered of for probably 5 min, trainer said "wait for a while and see what he does.Sometimes they just need time to think it over"
Sure enuff, when he came back he ran straight to the bell and rang it!!!!!

I also see this at home with my girl, I will sit down and wait for a behavier I want to enforce, then start clicking, we work maybe for 10-15 min and to me she does not seem to be getting the hang of it. I then click her for something else I want just to end on a positive note. She will then go take a nap, wake up, eat and so on.....and then I will take the clicker out again, maybe a couple of hours later and she will go straight to doing the behavier that I thought she wasnt getting the hang of!!

My trainer said one of the most common mistakes beginners do is give up to fast. The dogs often need time to think and process what is going on.

Also start with behaviers that you dont really mind if they are not perfect, things like tricks, maybe "play dead" That way u wont beat yourself up if u get it wrong, use this sort of stuff for practise before teaching things that are important and essential!!

It took less than a day to teach Röskva to play dead. I would have the clicker handy while sitting outside with he, then when she would start rolling in the grass (wich she always does) I would c/t when she was on her back. She would snap up at the click and come running for her treat. I would then just keep reading my book, watching her without her noticing and shed be on her back pretty soon again. C/T again and after a couple of these she would be laying in front of me lying on her back in hope of a click!!!! Also make sure to change locations, posture excedra so the dog doesnt associate u sitting on that chair in this part of the garden as a "cue" Go inside with the clicker and see if ur rottie also rolls over there! when the dog is offering the behavier in every circumstance u can start adding the cue!!!

Hope this helps.

[mjfish]

marianna -- great tips!! Thank you very much!! I would not have thought about letting them "take a break" as it were. I have just started associating the click with a treat, and I'm pretty sure they have that. Now I want to start working on the commands they already know in order to reinforce the "do something and you get a C/T for it" and reinforce the command at the same time. Do you bring your clicker on walks? I walk both my dogs together, so I am thinking that I won't be coordinated enough to handle leashes, a poop bag, and a clicker (and then use the clicker timely enough).

I was also thinking of using targeting to help break down the steps of a command such as the "Finish" in obedience training...I'm having a hard time communicating to him to walk around me. Did they cover targeting at all?

Thank you again!

[Ayoka]

Originally Posted by mjfish

marianna -- great tips!! Thank you very much!! I would not have thought about letting them "take a break" as it were. I have just started associating the click with a treat, and I'm pretty sure they have that. Now I want to start working on the commands they already know in order to reinforce the "do something and you get a C/T for it" and reinforce the command at the same time. Do you bring your clicker on walks? I walk both my dogs together, so I am thinking that I won't be coordinated enough to handle leashes, a poop bag, and a clicker (and then use the clicker timely enough).

I was also thinking of using targeting to help break down the steps of a command such as the "Finish" in obedience training...I'm having a hard time communicating to him to walk around me. Did they cover targeting at all?

Thank you again!

Got to love that latent learning I calll it "magic learning" don't know what happens upn there but the wheels, as they say, ARE turning.

I take my clicker on walks but with only one dog...it's akward but I think it would be nearly impossible with 2 dog to use one clicker...I'd do one on one at a time with the clicker.

When I get home I'll have to look up how Morgan Spector lays out the finish....I didn't use the book for that...we basically started it by luring with a target and clicking for coming into the right position.

The thing I have noticed with the finish is that my dog is left handed (I know this from flyball) so the around the back finish is awkward for him (although good exercise to balance him out) and the swing finish (to my left) is more natural for him, even though he's a big dog - it's rather funny to see him flip right around.

All that to say your pooch may not understand he's supposed to go around AND it may just be physically harder and take a little more concentration for him if he IS left handed - just like it might take more concentration (but not impossible) for you to kick a ball with your non-dominant foot.

[marianna]

i use the clicker on walks, am enforcing the loose leash heel.....I am only walking one dog at a time and I found a great leash that can go over my shoulder so I have both hands free for c/t!!

We did go a bit into targeting and Röskva knows to touch the end of a target stick and my hand with her nose on cue. I use "touch"! We havent started with her folowing the target stick yet. Am still enforcing the cue!

I forgot to mention timing! In the "play dead" example if i am maybe a bit off with timing, perhaps clicking the instance she goes on her side then that is what she will start doing in hope of a click, that is go on her side!! That is why it is a good idea to start with things that dont really matter that much!
You get what u click!!!! lol

Another thing is that with crossover dogs, they can take a bit to figure out that they should be offering behaviers. They at first tend to wait for commands so that is why patience is so important!! It took awhile for Röskva to figure out that she had to think for herself!!
That is why I waited a bit with enforcing the previously learned things like sit, down, shake e.c.t. cuz i wanted her to start offering behaviors that I couuld then shape! She is now in the process of learning to pick up her toys, and work the light switch on the floor lamp!!!! lol

This week we r also going to start with light agility, the tunnel , weave and such. She is still to young for the jumps but I think she will have fun with the lighter stuff!! Of course using the clicker!

I have aso started my foster on clicker training and she is doing great!!!


Also when doing complicated things "chains" it is best to do backchaining.
Here is an excelent article from Karen Pryors site on back chaining in agility, might be helpfull. (hope I am allowed to post the link!!)

http://www.clickertraining.com/node/111

[marianna]

One more thing, we are also enforcing the behaviors learned with traditional training with the clicker and she has for instance improved 100% on the recall.

I take her with me to work and there is lots of birds around, they will actually tease her by flying low over her like fighter planes then land maybe 10 feet away so she goes into prey mode!! But the second I whistle and/or call her she will stop dead in her tracks and come running! And this is a dog with very high prey drive!!!

[mjfish]

Akoya -- you know, you may be on to something there with being left-handed...I never thought of that. He does the swing finish much better than the military finish. Another problem I'm having is that if I try and lure him, he thinks he needs to be sitting to get the treat, so I have to break him of that habit somewhat because otherwise he just scoots around. When we do the military finish, I'm trying to drag his big 'ol butt around and behind me in the sitting position! That's why I'm thinking targeting would help here, and breaking the motion up into sections, having him target my hand at positions around me.

marianne -- I was wondering if I should say the commands or wait for them to offer...I will wait. I figured since they were ingrained already, that that would help, but I understand what you said in that you want them to think for themselves and offer the behavior instead. That's great improvement on your recall!

[Ayoka]

Originally Posted by mjfish

Another problem I'm having is that if I try and lure him, he thinks he needs to be sitting to get the treat, so I have to break him of that habit somewhat because otherwise he just scoots around.

We have this too and I think it's the one behaviour that has been the morst reinforced in Bear's life so he reverts to it and offers it first. If I ask for something and get a sit I just say too bad in a happy voice and will move/turn around so he has to offer something else or at least move with me.

I think targetting would be very useful here...we used a wooden spoon from the dollar store with a piece of tape wrapped around the handle end and it's easy enough to fade out by sliding the end closer and closer to your hand until it isn't visible at all. you can use it for the finish and then for about 101 other things, especially in agility!!!!

[spidey]

An easy way to solve the sitting problem is simply to toss a treat, click when the dog gets up, give another treat. As long as your treats are appropriately small (it's better from a training standpoint to give 20 tiny treats than 10 big ones, since that's 20 training episodes vs 10, plus the dog doesn't get full as quickly), there's absolutely no reason not to click and treat for ANY behaviour you want, and since "not sitting" is a behaviour you want, simply make it easy for the dog to get up (by throwing a treat), then clicking when he gets up and treating again. I toss treats when I'm doing static exercises (like down or sit) so that the dog has to actually get out of the position I want to get the reward, I definitely reward IN position a lot (especially for stays), but part of training is actually capturing the moment of the behaviour, which you can't get if the dog doesn't move. Nothing wrong with a few "free" treats here and there, either, since it can keep the dog interested in the game (mind you, if your dog doesn't stay interested, you either need to find better treats, lower your criteria, or reward more often, it's surprising just how frequently the really good clicker trainers reward, especially when training a new behaviour or working with a dog new to clicker training - many aim for clicking and treating every few seconds at first, and this can make a big difference).

[marianna]

Well put spidey!

What I do is , while teaching "go to bed"(mat) for example I will toss the treat away from her so that she must get up to eat it! That way I can also see if she runs straight for the bed(mat) afterwards

[jazzking1971]

I was having issue with the speed at which my 7mo schutzhund boy was going into Platz (down). Everything else has been great. I think ultimately I was having issues because he's a very dominant pup in general.

Last weekend I start clicker training with him and now his platz is perfect and with the speed I want.