"Attention" heeling-

[Skip]

Alright, I'm going to say it. I do NOT like the way it looks. I have no idea why some judges like it...although I am hearing that other countries are getting away from it for trial work.. The dog has great peripheral vision and does not need to be staring up at you with a wrapped around body/neck for the whole heeling routine. I will probably lose a few points in future trials, but I see no point in having a dog watch me the whole exercise. I see some dogs so wrapped around the handler that it just looks goofy and blocks free movement of the handler.

[poohbearsmom]

Well, slap me and call me Sally, but I like an attentive heel..

If the dog is turned in front of the handler, though, I don't think that's correct positioning, I consider that forging a bit.

When my dog's watching my eyes with enthusiasm as we're heeling, I can't think of a better feeling to have.

Just me, though.

[Skip]

Sally...an attentive heel is fine, and I see some dogs managing this without the eye lock. It just looks weird to me. Almost spastic. Doesn't look natural at all...and I know heeling itself isn't natural, but that much intense staring serves no purpose..and doesn't look good..in my opinion.

[Gunsey'sMom]

I see what you are saying Skip. I have to admit though that I attended my first trial the other day (very impressed) and I felt almost a bit relieved to see the dogs there doing it- because that is how Gunner's heel is. I thought it was incorrect the way we were doing it- with him being so close to me.
Gunner DOES forge a little and we have to work on that-sometimes I feel like I am going to trip over him. It is more so annoying than anything. I dont think I would change the attention part though, I want his attention to be on me at all times.

Attention is one thing thoug, an eye lock is another- I could do without that and so could he- he has to see where he is going- you know?

[EmmysMom]

I have to agree w/Skip. I don't particularly like it either. My one trainer puts it this way, "this is a working breed and they are prone to checking our/surveying the territority as they work - they don't need to be staring into your eyes the whole time - they aren't a golden". Emmy has a close heel and checks in w/me while working but she does not do the stare and that works just fine for me. Her mother on the other hand had that kind of heel and it worked for them.

[spoteet]

I want the attentive heeling but do NOT want the dog wrapped around my leg at all. I think the wrap looks bad and it has to be difficult for the handler to walk. Plus the dog's body is normally at an angle which is not correct either.

[Ayoka]

I have been doing some reading lately about canine structure (suzanne clothier) and obedience training (Morgan spector) and, I really wonder about the physical ramifications of this type of this type of heeling and of course about the necessity of the "wrap around & bore holes in your head stare" kind of heeling.

For a dog that is involved in other things besides obedience, muscle balance is crucial and you can only imagine what that kind of contortion does for that. Just try yourself to walk staring up and to the left, it gets tiring after about 30 seconds.....I know that dogs are "handed" from flyball and try to keep conditioning (strength & flexibility) both sides however Bear is "left" handed so that look up and to the right and the slight curve of the neck/spine are a little challenging for him. I also wonder wether the structure of some breeds makes this easier.

In CKC, heeling is walking close to the handler without lagging or forging or crowding, allowing the handler to move freely....I really doubt the wraparound allows freedom of movement...I saw a woman at a trial whose pants were soaked on the lefthand side from her GSD's contact while heeling...

All to say I think that a dog can be attentive without boring holes in your head with their eyes...for the full heeling routine...

[spidey]

I agree with Skip. I do actually reward attention heeling with my current dog, and work toward having him maintain eye contact more than not, but this is specifically because this dog is VERY easily distracted, and he is far less easy to distract when he has something appropriate to focus on. In general, though, I feel that heeling is having the dog maintain the correct position, and I don't think that any rulebook for obedience says the dog must maintain eye contact in order to be heeling correctly.

[rottcrazed]

Realistically, they cannot maintain eye contact with you because you should not be looking at your dog (ie ... down at your dog) when you are heeling with them. You can look out of the corner of your eye, but ultimately, you will absolutely get penalized for looking directly down at them UNLESS you are in the Novice A class. Beyond that class, don't do it.

I love the look of a dog working, head up, proud and bouncy. I train that way, although because I don't have a Golden, they are not as flashy in the ring, but I strive for it.

Kristi

[Zephir]

It's my observation that dogs that do not look into the handler's face are the ones with crappy heeling - typically (and I say typically, not always), lag and show no enthusiasm. This shows no bond with the handler, IMO.

The dogs that wrap their front quarters around the handler (typically GSD’s) also have crappy heeling and are not correct. Correct position is the dog’s shoulder aligned with the handler’s knee/ thigh.

[EliDogInTraining]

Attention heeling can be a double edged sword. While it may help you get full points on heeling it can cost you on side and back transports. You will actually lose points on the side transport if the dog keeps all it's focus on you and not the helper. Nothing worse than a dog so fixated on the handler that the attack out of the back transport can be very ugly. My dog gives me pretty decent attention but he doesn't give me that zombie eye stare 100% of the time, part of the time I get eye contact and the rest is head cocked towards my leg and up a bit. I've managed to SG obedience on both the SchH1 and SchH2 so I can live with what he gives me.

For the record, there is no where in AKC rules stating you can not look at your dog while heeling. It gives location for hands on heeling and all fronts.

[rottcrazed]

Not a written rule, but it is common with many judges to deduct points for looking at your dog while heeling ....

Kristi

[EliDogInTraining]

Then those judges would be wrong, at least AKC judges. I can't say about what they do in Canada.

[groupieindenial]

Originally Posted by Zephir

It's my observation that dogs that do not look into the handler's face are the ones with crappy heeling - typically (and I say typically, not always), lag and show no enthusiasm. This shows no bond with the handler, IMO.

The dogs that wrap their front quarters around the handler (typically GSD’s) also have crappy heeling and are not correct. Correct position is the dog’s shoulder aligned with the handler’s knee/ thigh.

The "attention heeling" is exactly that, enthusiasm or "spirit of the dog", that will carry more weight than a dog that just goes through the motions. A dog that wraps himself around your leg, is poor heeling - usually the ass end sticks out making his position crooked.

Originally Posted by rottcrazed

Not a written rule, but it is common with many judges to deduct points for looking at your dog while heeling ....

Kristi

I believe this is called "handler help", and is why you would lose points.

A dog that is giving you good attention heeling is actually paying LOTS of attention to your body, particularrly your shoulders, and can anticipate which direction you will turn by your gestures. Dogs are the masters of body language right? Notice handlers that turn their left shoulders in slightly (peeking down at their dog) tend to get crooked positions from their dog. Also, this type of heeling encourages the dog to drive from its rear, is how you get that prancy heeling (commin in GSD's), which judges love. Lots of time needs to be spent on the foundations, but once you've got it, you've got it.

[hcelsa]

My dogs all LOVE heeling...and yep...they heel in a "heads-up" position, and that's the position I prefer them to be in rather than just walking along watching me peripherally. Most of them went through a stage where they really wanted to wrap, but in general they grew out of it (I prefer not to correct them for enthusiasm in their work). They offer that position from a very young age...I merely reward it and build on their desire to be in heel position. I guess I feel that their peripheral vision is good enough for them to see where they are going while keeping the majority of their attention on ME.

I DO work them on both sides (my dogs "fuss" on the left, and "side" on the right), and they're also checked by a chiropractor periodically due to all the stuff they do.