Clicker training question

[mferg]

Hello Folks,
I thought I'd start an adventure in clicker training with my puppy. I am a total novice at this stuff, so bear with me, please.

I'd like to get started teaching the basic positions to the little monster. I'm unsure about how to get the proper sit, down and stand positions by way of clicker. I would like him to bring his back legs to his front legs in the sit. I want him to fold down in a sphynx down. I don't want him to walk into the stand from a sit or down. Essentially, I don't want his front legs to creep forward (or back) when taking positions. I have introduced what types of positions I'd like from him using food lures only. If he didn't take the desired path to the position, I would abandon that effort and try again, rewarding when he did it the way I wanted.

So, the question: When I'm "capturing" the sit/down/stand, do I, at first, catch ALL sits/down/stands and then refine it to rewarding only the desired path to those positions, or do I only capture the correct path and positions right from the start?

Also, what are some good resources for me to explore both in the way of books/video and online? I do have Morgan Spector's Obedience book. I haven't gotten way too far into it, and it's been a few years since I've read it any. (Who knows, my question may even be answered in there.)

Thanks a lot.

[flyballmom]

Originally Posted by mferg

Also, what are some good resources for me to explore both in the way of books/video and online? I do have Morgan Spector's Obedience book. I haven't gotten way too far into it, and it's been a few years since I've read it any. (Who knows, my question may even be answered in there.)

I like the Spector book altho the technical stuff at the beginning was a bit much for my poorly focused brain

Karen Pryor's site is full of all kinds of info, I think there's a e-list there too.

[Skip]

Originally Posted by mferg

Hello Folks,
I thought I'd start an adventure in clicker training with my puppy. I am a total novice at this stuff, so bear with me, please.

I'd like to get started teaching the basic positions to the little monster. I'm unsure about how to get the proper sit, down and stand positions by way of clicker. I would like him to bring his back legs to his front legs in the sit. I want him to fold down in a sphynx down. I don't want him to walk into the stand from a sit or down. Essentially, I don't want his front legs to creep forward (or back) when taking positions. I have introduced what types of positions I'd like from him using food lures only. If he didn't take the desired path to the position, I would abandon that effort and try again, rewarding when he did it the way I wanted.

So, the question: When I'm "capturing" the sit/down/stand, do I, at first, catch ALL sits/down/stands and then refine it to rewarding only the desired path to those positions, or do I only capture the correct path and positions right from the start?

Also, what are some good resources for me to explore both in the way of books/video and online? I do have Morgan Spector's Obedience book. I haven't gotten way too far into it, and it's been a few years since I've read it any. (Who knows, my question may even be answered in there.)

Thanks a lot.

I would go to a good qualified trainer to show you the basics. I would not attempt it without some really good instructions (in person) from someone who knows what they are doing.

[mferg]

Originally Posted by Skip

I would go to a good qualified trainer to show you the basics. I would not attempt it without some really good instructions (in person) from someone who knows what they are doing.

Well, shoot. I know it would be best for me to do that, I just don't know of anybody around here. I also don't really know the best way to find one. Actually, the reason I haven't really jumped into clicker training before this is I've wanted to get some instruction from somebody who truly knew what they were doing so I could get going in the correct direction. I can grasp the very basics; I just have trouble (in my mind) progressing to more complex/advanced stuff.

[flyballmom]

Originally Posted by mferg

I just don't know of anybody around here.

In our part of CA...there isn't anyone. My agility trainer is a clicker trainer as it applies to agility. I'm sure she'd be happy to help if you're willing to drive to Woodlake (read: middle of nowhere.) Maybe Lucy's agility trainer could answer questions as well?

I put out a couple feelers. Will email you when I hear back.

[spidey]

I would lure to get the exact sits and downs you want - shaping and capturing are very valuable tools (and the behaviours I shaped 100% are my dog's strongest ones), but dogs can tend to get into the habit of doing the "wrong" sits and downs very easily - there's a method for training sits called "skip sits" or "skipping sits" which works very well for training that tidy, fast, obedience sit. My current dog is my first clicker dog and I'm definitely sold on it as a training method, at least for puppies and initial behaviours.

Good resources: ClickerSolutions, Sue Ailsby, and really, just Googling "clicker training" will get you a ton of useful sites.

I would go to a good qualified trainer to show you the basics. I would not attempt it without some really good instructions (in person) from someone who knows what they are doing.

The beauty of clicker training is that you do absolutely no harm if you "do it wrong" (unlike corrections-based training, which is not a slam against using corrections, just a point). As long as you keep your part of the bargain (which is, if you click, you treat, regardless of whether you meant to or not), you aren't going to cause any problems.

[Cherry Heart]

Arwen stands and sits like you mentioned (coming forward with her back,standing without coming forward) and we did this by practicing face to face. If you are sitting with them straight in front of you, they can NOT come forward so the back moves and the front stays, Arwen never moved back because she is VERY treat motivated and wanted her face closer to it at all times.

The sit is just like everyone else sits, bringing food back over the face, head comes up, butt goes down. We never had a problem with her moving back. For stand I sat with her in front of me with my foot between her front paws, as I said "stand" I tapped her stomach with the tip of my foot and she would stand to get me to stop "poking her" (never hard, just the feeling would make her go "huh?What?" and stand). Her back always came up with front paws not moving. This worked sooo much better then "stand" bring treat forward, once we were working on heel she was one of the few dogs in class who could stand straight up and not break heel position. With the clicker, you want to click the second the butt hits the ground for sit, and the second they're legs are full extended to standing position for standing. We purchased "Clicking With your Dog" by Peggy Tillman which is a "Karon Pryor" book and also had great teachers who encorage clicker.

For sphynx down I used the command "drop". Down is casual... "lay down, roll over on one hip and relax awhile" and drop is "hit the deck NOW and be ready to pop back up when I tell ya!". Arwen already knew down when we started working on drop. I just stood in front of her and said "drop!" and brough the treat straight down between her paws as fast as I could.. She knew that one after 3 tries.