Housebreaking Problems

[Mom of Sophie]

Sophie is a little over a year old, and I'm having some housebreaking problems still. She knows that going in the house is wrong - when I catch her in the act, I scold her, she looks very contrite, and she holds the rest of it until I get her outside.

She does very well sometimes for weeks at a time, and then she just seems to "forget." I'm pretty vigilant about putting her out when there seems to be, or should be, a need, but often she spends a good deal of time outdoors, does a bit, and then comes inside and does a *lot*.

I'm wondering if this could be due to the fact that she was crated during puppyhood. I got her when she was six months old. I have two older dogs, and I don't really like crating. The older ones I got at six weeks of age, and they were never crated - always figured that the entire house was home, and were very easily potty-trained - I think it was because *everywhere* inside was where they lived, and they caught onto the idea that they don't go where they live.

Short of confining her, is there anything I can do?

[SableMom]

It's funny (not HaHa) that you should make a post on this topic. I have a 1 and 1/2 year old shih tzu that I got at 9 weeks old. She has been crated for her entire life. And for her entire life I have had a problem with her peeing anywhere in the house that she feels like it. I just assumed that she felt like she couldn't hold it. I make sure to let her out when she should need to go. She NEVER EVER goes in her crate -- but anywhere else in the house is fair game.

I honestly think that she sees her crate as 'home' and knows that she shouldn't go in there. I think to her the house IS outside. If a dog that hasn't been crate trained sees the house as 'home' and the outside as 'outside' then it makes sense that the crate trained dog would see the crate as 'home' and anything that is not the crate (including other areas inside the house) as 'outside'.

I know this does not answer your question in any way but I did want you to know someone else is having the same problem. I know I will never "crate train" a dog again. My next dog will be inside when I can watch him/her and outside in a run when I can't.

Good luck and I hope someone else here can help you (and me too http://www.rottweiler.net/rottie/wink.gif).

[Nancy Estes]

I hate to tell you but some dogs are just dirty.... All of my dogs have been crate trained, from Bloodhounds, Beagles, Bassets and Rottweilers. I have had a few dirty dogs, yep, even Rotts - they never went in their crate but ANYWHERE else was fair game. Rotts are usually not dirty but there's always the exception. The ones I've had that were, were females. I do not think crate-training has anything to do with it. If a dog had been crated to the point that it had no option other than to go in its crate, that's one thing. However, I got back a male I'd sold where this was the case - and he is not dirty. He will not go in his crate or in his run if he can help it. So, there's the exception to the rule. If crate training caused this behavior at least every other dog owner in the world who'd crate trained their dog would be having this problem.

Nancy

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von Dorow Rottweilers
doggo1@apex2000.net

[frontierrots]

Ihave to say I will never NOT crate train a dog.
Dogs urinate and defecate in the house because 1) they have a physical problem
2) they do not fully understand the housebreaking yet
3) they are not being watched constantly until they do understand the housebreaing thing 100%

I get this complaint all the time from boarding customers. IF you have a dog that soils in the house then that dog is not ready forunsupervised time in the ouse. Supervision means the dog is IN your sight 100% when loose in the house. If the dog is in your sight you will notice when it starts to think about needing to goout. If the dog does not communicate this well enough for you to notice than the dog needs to be taken out every hour.

The dog is crated inside or in a fenced area outside if the person can not 100% watch them .

There are some dirty dogs yes. But they are not usually crate trained dogs. They are usually either dogs who were kept in dirty surroundings as pups and / or they were allowed too much unsupervised time in the house as youngsters and developed a preferred elimination spot indoors.

I have never raised a house dog of any breed that was not totally housebroken by 8 to 12 months of age (often sooner) It requires extreme vigilance on the part of the owner and dedication to schedule. You in kitchen and dog in living room is not supervising!

As an example we are fostering a 7 month old Australan cattle Dog that is well housebroken 90% of the time BUT if she has to defecate she does not indicate that she needs to go out if she has access to another room. When she is confined to crate or in the same room with a person she asks to go out BUT if she has even a minutes access to another room (ur dining room) she "speed poops" in there. We have since changed how we supervise her if she has not recently defecated outside in that she is watched 100% whereever she goes and at the slightest hint of going towards the gate from dining room to hall she is taken outside. Problem solved

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Diane
Frontier Rottweilers & Shiba Inu
www.frontierrots.com

[Syrusvkato]

I have to say that crate training made housebreaking my puppy a hundred times easier. He ate in the crate, 15 minutes and he was put directly outside to do his business. Yes he tried to go in the house, but that is when your responsibility comes in the puppy needs to be watched and as soon as he started to go, loud noise and outside. My puppy was housetrained two weeks after I brought him home with this method. He made maybe 4 mistakes in the house. You have got to realize that if they go in the house it is YOUR fault for not watching them closely enough. (Until you can catch them a couple of times, then they will know better). Crate training is a huge advantage.

[bearkat]

When I first read about crates 10 years ago, I thought it was the most in-humane, cruel, mean way to treat a puppy. Now, I have successfully raised 3 Rotties, 2 males, and 1 female using the crate technique. My littlest one, Clyde, now almost 14 months old, has taught himself how to open the door of his crate, find a forgotten toy, and lie down in the crate and play. He knows that he can come out at any time, and he also knows to leave whatever he finds in his crate there, so it is handy to play with next time he chooses.

Very close observation, attention to your dog's attitude and behavior, I think are important to housetraining. After 7 years of puppies, I can honestly say that I have had a dozen "wet" mistakes, and absolutely ZERO "solid" mistakes. I know that my puppies have not been brighter than average, so since we have had such a good record, I figure it is simply because I spend an exceptional amount of time with my puppies, and my adult dogs, as well. I am what you might call a "fussy" person. Everything in it's place, you know, and the thought of a puppy using my carpet for a potty doesn't cut it!! Hence, small puppies are not allowed on the carpet, and they go out every 1/2 hour, adults, every hour, whether they want to or not, depending on their body language. I can tell when a dog has to go outside, and if they show the signs, out we go for a walk. I used to have a pair of brother Schnauzers who marked each other's territory in my livingroom, and as soon as I separated them, they quit trying to "one-up" each other. Soon, they both recognized that MY house was just one very large crate.

It is my understanding that is how most housetrained dogs are supposed to act. They should know that "OUTSIDE" means go potty there, not in their "cave", which happens to be your house. I would guess she needs to outside more often? And has she been tested for a bladder, kidney or vaginal infection?

[AngelBunny]

Gotta say I'm with all the other posters who believe in & practice crate training. It has certainly helped housetrain our puppies speedily & with very few mistakes.

I agree there are some dogs who are dirty, but I think these guys are the exception.
Housetraining only works if you *never take your eyes off your puppy when Fido is out of the crate*. I also took Fido outside out every half hour, whether puppy looked as tho he had to go or not. I'd even wake up in the middle of the night once or twice to take the puppy out. If I couldn't give puppy my undivided attention, Fido was in his crate.

The other huge advantage of crate training is that you can take your dog places. My in-laws are old and frail; while they know our girls are well-behaved, it's much simplier and less stressful on my in-laws if the girls are crated. Since they're crate trained, they don't fuss.

And other dogs can come visit us. One of my sisters recently adopted an older Akita bitch thru rescue who is a peach to our younger dog and our foster Bear; bossy Cagney, however, doesn't like our older very bossy Riga and Riga doesn't like Cagney. Since both dogs are crate trained, we don't have to worry about a brawl.

[Vision]

Well from what you posted if the dog has been peeing that much in the house and you have carpeting. then your going to have to clean your carpets better or replace it. because your dog can smell where he/she has gone. you mite not smell it but the dog can.

[Starsmom]

Funny you should mention this. Looked behind my computer yesterday and discovered that Starr had a little bathroom area going there. I was shocked. I've seen her go back there but i thought she was just playing and exploring. Well I've blocked the area off so she can't get back there. She'll be to big to fit soon, but until then, I'll just keep it blocked. Starr is also being crate trained. We have had a few accidents but it's not her fault but mine for not keeping a close enough watch on her. It's been years since I've had a puppy this young but I'm getting the hang of it.

Dear frustraed,
if your dog does well for weeks at a time, and than starts to pee in the house again, I have 2 questions:
1: Is there any changes in your household,
workschedule etc..? She might be protesting about something and/or look for more attention.
2: Have you had her checked for a urinary tract infection? If she was to have one and it doesn't get treated, it could get better and than worse again.
Anyhow, the best of luck for you and don't forget to wear a life jacket...
Henny

[Michael C.]

WE have a 5 1/2 month old girl. This is my first puppy ever. My mistake when we first brought her home was waiting until she actually had to go to take her outside. I finally just started taking her out ever 1/2 hour. After a week of this, she has been great. We have had 2 accidents in the last three months. I guess I am one of the lucky ones.

While your dog is inside just try and take her out every hour. You should probably be outside with her so you can give her lots of praise when she goes. Don't just open the door and let her out by herself.

Good luck

Mike

[JoJo]

Well I have to put my 2 cents in! I'm a firm believer now that "you CAN train an old dog new tricks". T-bone is 5 years old (on Dec. 8th) and he has never been indoors. We have had him now for 2 weeks and he's housebroken!!! I started with the crate and when he was out of it and loose in the house I watched him like a hawk. Took him out every hour and used the word "jobby" and "outside" everytime I let him out. We he peed I would praise him and saying "good jobby". My neighbors surely think I've lost my mind, but oh well. Ha Ha. All I can say is that you have to be persistant and follow thru. If T-bone can do it surely most any other dog can too. I wish you luck.

JoAnne

[CricketNCisco]

While I agree with everyone on the crate training, I think Henny (Snotty Rotty) may be on the right track. If your dog does great for weeks at a time, then the problem could be medical. Female dogs can be prone to cystitis...she might just be telling you she needs a trip to the vet.

Cricket

[Eliza]

Living in Australia it's not a common practice (have never heard of it before) to crate a dog. I personally don't believe in it. We have toilet trained many dogs, including a rotti and most recently 2 Westie Pups without too many problems. They hate being confined there's no way I'd ever put them in a crate. The whole idea appalls me!

[AngelBunny]

Eliza:

Please think a bit more deeply about crate training.

Our girls are very well trained and at home, we rarely crate them. However, when we take them to my in-laws--who are old and frail and live in a "just so house"--they spend alot of time in their crates. (To compensate, we take them for lots of walks outside, even if it's only a walk around the block.)

We set up the crates in the living room where they can see us and be part of the party w/o any of us having to worry about one of the girls bumping into someone.

At night, the girls are free in our bedroom.

Much better to do this, I think, than to board them or even worse, lock them in the basement of the in-laws house when we all visit!

As our dogs get older, we leave the crate door open. I've lost count of the many times the young dog has gone voluntariy into the crate for a snooze. I hardly think the dog would willingly go into the crate to sleep there of his own accord if the crate had negative associations.

When the dog is reliable enough to leave him or her unsupervised in the house, the crate goes into storage til the next time it's needed.

Finally, crates are very useful when you foster.