Prong Collar and Yelping

[SaranBear]

Ok I have started using a prong/pinch collar on my 3 1/2 year old Rottie Bear. This was the reccommendation of our trainer. During our walking exercise he yelps when the leash goes taut. The trainer says it is out of surprise. I am afraid of hurting him. We have it on both rings or "dead ring"(I think that's what it's called). I am just looking for any feedback from those who have used this type of collar. Is this a common behavior?
Thank you

[denverday]

Denver yelped the first couple of times...I bought the largest gauge prong, because the smaller the gauge the more it hurts, you should be starting with the bulkiest one...then if that doesn't work, use a smaller gauge.

[kayozzy]

I have never had a dog yelp while wearing one. Has someone checked to make sure it fits properly? Some trainers seem to like it too tight for my liking. It should fit snug, but with some room in it. If it is on too tight, it is just jamming into the skin instead of pinching when given the proper yank.

Also, a dog should be taught with the smallest amount of correction necessary. Some dogs are softer than others and a small correction is all that is necessary. Good luck!

[SaranBear]

Thanx for your replies. We are using the medium collar, and it was fitted by our trainer. It sits high up on his neck and although it is snug, it's loose enough that it can spin/turn the collar a little bit. He doesn't seem to be afraid of the collar, and I checked his neck for any sore spots and there are none. He does walk much nicer, but has now forgotten what sit is. I was also wondering whether or not we can eventually stop using this collar. I thought it was only for training, but the trainer said use it all the time.
Thank you
Sarah

[kayozzy]

Maybe the trainer thinks that because it is such a large dog, he will need to wear it. Doesn't sound like a great trainer to me. I think you should be able to train him to walk nice without it eventually. After he learns to ignore distractions. That is what I am working on right now. Very long process. If he is still yelping, you may want to switch to a gentle leader. It goes around the nose and if they pull, it pulls their head towards you. No pain whatsoever and much more effective. However this is just a quick fix for walking, but if that's what you need, maybe it will work just fine for you.

[rencook]

Properly fitted-you should be able to fit a finder under the prongs, and I had dogs yelp when they get corrected on the prong-because they are actually feeling the correction and it startles them. A prong collar should not always be digging into a dogs neck, but should be used as a training tool to correct the dog from what it is not supposed to do.
If your dog is yelping every time the prongs get tight-look at his neck-is the a sore or a raw sport there?? Also, ask your trainer if the collar is fitted right and make sure your timing is right with the corrections.

[rencook]

Also, taeching a dog to walk properly should not be a long process, and gentle leaders-in my opinon, just prevent the dog from pulling-it does not teach the dog that he his not supposed to pull on leash.

[rencook]

Ok, Saran-I apologize-I just post questions to everything you already anwsered:)
Yes, you can eventually stop using the prong collar-but during this learning phase-it sounds like you need an extra UMPH for you guy.
I used a prong on my girl for about 6-8 months-and then I kep both her prong and training collar on for a while after that-just in case I needed to use it.
Good Luck!!

[Barry]

Im amazed that anyone still uses these medevil devices for training.The prong collar is a poor substitute for developing a true training/interactive realtionship with your dog. The gentle leader is a much more evolved tool for communicating with your dog.When you are training you must be the center of atention for your dog.I think you should seek out a trainer who takes a more 21st century approach to training.

Im amazed that sadists who use the shock collar have not gotted together with the prong collar people and developed the Electric prong collar.

Regards
Barry

[myst]

my question is are you training for show type obed. or the wonderful walks with your dog?
the gentle leaders also come in a harness:) they are wonderful for walks. and a harness is easier for people to see than something over the muzzle. a lot of people use the harness for walking and enjoying the out of doors. then when doing training or obed. they have a collar for that. maybe try a nylon flat that is with half a chain. sorry dont know the name of them.
and you may need to go back to the little fussy basics like sit, down, stand:) review never hurts me or my dog:) but then we do positive training.

[denverday]

Originally Posted by Barry

Im amazed that anyone still uses these medevil devices for training.The prong collar is a poor substitute for developing a true training/interactive realtionship with your dog. The gentle leader is a much more evolved tool for communicating with your dog.When you are training you must be the center of atention for your dog.I think you should seek out a trainer who takes a more 21st century approach to training.

Im amazed that sadists who use the shock collar have not gotted together with the prong collar people and developed the Electric prong collar.

Regards
Barry

I myself have tried the gentle leader...I did not have any better results...the prong is supposed to be used for self correction...one does not correct the dog with it....The shock collar is something people use to correct...I don't believe in them for me..there is a difference....Please know what you are talking about before you make such broad foolish uneducated comments.

[MontanaRott]

Originally Posted by Barry

Im amazed that anyone still uses these medevil devices for training.The prong collar is a poor substitute for developing a true training/interactive realtionship with your dog. The gentle leader is a much more evolved tool for communicating with your dog.When you are training you must be the center of atention for your dog.I think you should seek out a trainer who takes a more 21st century approach to training.

Im amazed that sadists who use the shock collar have not gotted together with the prong collar people and developed the Electric prong collar.

Regards
Barry

Oh please, what a uninformed statement, there is nothing mid evil about the prong collar, have you ever put one on your arm and given yourself a correction? They are great tools,when fitted and used correctly, there is nothing wrong with having one in your tool box for training, but it should not be your only tool. The only time I see one as unfair or cruel is when they are used on puppies.

[Ilovemypuppy]

Originally Posted by MontanaRott

Oh please, what a uninformed statement, there is nothing mid evil about the prong collar, have you ever put one on your arm and given yourself a correction? They are great tools,when fitted and used correctly, there is nothing wrong with having one in your tool box for training, but it should not be your only tool. The only time I see one as unfair or cruel is when they are used on puppies.

Exactly and I will add that according to the American Veterinary Chiropractic Association, the prong collar is the PREFERRED collar, over ANY others because less pressure is used, pressure is evenly distributed and cannot cause damage to the trachea if used correctly. The head halters, on the other hand, can cause subluxation of the cervical vertebra by the simple sideways tug. The choke....well..we all know what chokes can do The prong, properly used is a great tool combined with handler finesse and positive reinforcement.

A properly used prong does not cause pain, gets the dog's attention, stops pulling...so the handler and dog can get down to the enjoyment of training.

Our canine chiropractor also say the prong should be fitted mid way UP the neck and not too high.

[rencook]

Originally Posted by denverday

I myself have tried the gentle leader...I did not have any better results...the prong is supposed to be used for self correction...one does not correct the dog with it....The shock collar is something people use to correct...I don't believe in them for me..there is a difference....Please know what you are talking about before you make such broad foolish uneducated comments.

The prong is not a self-correction tool-it is meant to give a sharper correction than a training collar. If it would be used as you say-the dog would actually be able to build up his neck muscles with the prong-believe me, I've trained some dogs whose necks we SOOOO strong because the owners just put the prong on and let the dog "self-correct" himself.
And a e-collar is also something that can be used in different ways-it is not primarily a correction device-but can be used as a motivational tool to get your dogs attention.
Remeber-not every dog responds to a training tool the same way.

[Ilovemypuppy]

What the &*&%$# is all this self correcting CRAP?????? You don't train by allowing the dog to get so out of line that it hits the end of the leash...you TRAIN positioning, by positive motivation and patience in showing the dog where that position is...that means..you have to use your brain...not hoping the dog will read your mind.

Another thing that is said way too often is also CRAP...and that is that any dog will build up some sort of callous to a collar...OMG!! The only callous a dog builds up is a resistance to an inept handler.