Trainer or shock collar?

[CJNORD]

I'M new to this site. I have a 3 yr old rot who listens great in the house but outside in the yard sometimes he wont listen at all and if he gets out of the fence good luck.

I was thinking about a shock collar to teach him any thoughts?

Thank you.

[mrsgrubby]

What types of training have you done with him outside of your fence? I think a shock collar should be a LAST resort.

Have you done leash training outside your fence on a short leash, have you done leash training outside your fence on a 20 foot leash? Have you taken your dog to obedience class yet?

Getting a dog, especially a bull minded rottie to listen in a distraction area is hard, I agree. But make sure you have exhausted all options before you bring out the shock collar.

What types of problems are you having outside of your fence? Will he walk nicely on a leash? Will he sit if you tell him to? Or is this just a recall issue?

If you give us a bit more info I know we can help you.

[Skip]

Originally Posted by CJNORD

I'M new to this site. I have a 3 yr old rot who listens great in the house but outside in the yard sometimes he wont listen at all and if he gets out of the fence good luck.

I was thinking about a shock collar to teach him any thoughts?

Thank you.

Forget the shock collar. Since he listens great in the house but not when he's outside...do a LOT more of your training outside. Set the dog up for success instead of failure. Use a long line (with treats) OUTSIDE to practice recalls. Don't give the dog any freedom outside off-leash until the dog realizes "come" means "COME".

[brunie's mom]

I would suggest you sign your dog and yourself up for an obedience class. This will teach you how to teach him, with the added bonus of distractions, people, other dogs, etc.

I agree...a shock collar should only be used as a last resort. If the dog does not understand what you want or has not learned the command properly...the shock collar could make the dog aggessive. You could damage the dog.
Shock collars should only be used with an instructor that knows how to use one....and the dog still must be taught.

Gina

[CJNORD]

Originally Posted by mrsgrubby

What types of training have you done with him outside of your fence? I think a shock collar should be a LAST resort.

Have you done leash training outside your fence on a short leash, have you done leash training outside your fence on a 20 foot leash? Have you taken your dog to obedience class yet?

Getting a dog, especially a bull minded rottie to listen in a distraction area is hard, I agree. But make sure you have exhausted all options before you bring out the shock collar.

What types of problems are you having outside of your fence? Will he walk nicely on a leash? Will he sit if you tell him to? Or is this just a recall issue?

If you give us a bit more info I know we can help you.

He will sit and listen to me in the house. Outside in the fenced yard most of the time he listens. When he gets out of the yard he is off to the races wont listen to me and I have to trap hime somewhere to get him. I have not been to dog training classes. I got him about 1 year ago the people who had him pretty much left him outside all day and in the mud room at night. I have a 7 yr old daughter and he is great with her.

[brunie's mom]

First of all please do not allow your dog to escape your yard. Not only is it dangerous for your dog....it is irresponsible as a dog owner. The Rottweiler breed will be next on the banned list...and when the public sees a Rottweiler running around the neighbourhood...it means that the owner is not responsible.

Get him signed up for classes. He does not understand what you want. You can start by practicing in your yard. Fill your pockets with small treats...call him with the dogs name and the "come" command...and reward with a treat. Do that each and every time he comes to you.

What do you do when you manage to "trap" him while running at large? Do you yell and grab him? This will make him run even further.

You need help with him. Once you get it him into training, it will be a pleasure to have him as part of your family.

Also...if he is not neutered please have this done...it may keep him from wanting to take off from your yard looking for excitement.

Gina

[spidey]

Dogs do not generalize well. You need to do what's called "proofing", which is where you retrain behaviours in a new location, which you've already trained in one location (so he listens to you in your living room, that doesn't mean he actually understands that "sit" means "sit" no matter where you are - you train it in a low-distraction, familiar area like your living room, then train it all over the house, then move to the back yard, then to Petsmart, etc.). Remember to lower your criteria when you first change locations, your dog will be slower to respond at first and you will need to increase your reward at first. It takes roughly 40 repetitions in 40 locations according to some estimates before your dog will obey as well anywhere as he does in your living room. You don't need a shock collar, there is no point in punishing a dog for not doing something he hasn't actually learned in the first place, you need training help, so that you can learn how to train your dog, and how your dog learns. Good luck.

[mrsgrubby]

Great Post Spidey!!!
This is exactly right. your dog does not know the same rules apply outside the house. Your dog needs to practice, on a leash in the yard first, and then the same thing outside the yard, and then the same thing at the park, and then the same thing in the pet store, etc. Each time he will be distracted and you will have to proceed slowly.

Never give a command you can not enforce. So in other words. in the yard, put him on a 20ft piece of rope or leash. Call him to come, and if he doesn't start towards you, say "good dog' and start realing him in like a fish, praising him all the time. Then do it again and again until he happily runs towards you each time you call. Always reward him when he gets to you. However, if you are in the yard and he is in the yard NOT on a leash and you don't think he will come, then don't call him to come, go and get him. Only tell him to do soemthing when you can enforce it. That way he will learn that he can't ignore your commands. Eventually, after much practice, he will not notice he isn't on a leash and assume he needs to obey you.

Also, a good basic, positive reinforcement obed. class would be good for you.

Lastly, never call your dog to you for soemthing bad. For example, don't call him over to scold him for soemthing bad he did, or don't call him over to give him a bath, or to put him in his cage. Only call him over for positive things at this time, so he equates coming to you with positive things.

Please continue to post questions as they come up, but make sure at this time he does not leave the house or yard without wearing a leash!

[SABELLESMOM]

Great advice! What he's learned inside doesn't transfer outside.

Something else that's really hard. If you call your dog to you and he/she does not come. How do you act once he finally does? Frustrated? Fight the urge to be angry. Squat down, greet him happily with your arms outstretched like you haven't seen him in a month, instead. Make every time he comes to you a joyous occasion! So he will always enjoy coming.

[cobra240]

This will be my first post here, but I have a feeling it is going to be replied with a lot of anger.
I have a 5 month old female (Paige) who is having some problems.
I am the only one in the house she will listen to on any consistent basis. My wife has professional experience and has had some success, but the kids (7,9,12) are just plain clueless and practice just about every negative behavior that I have read here.

Here are our problems:
While she knows to go potty outside, she will still go where she pleases.
Our dinner time is her free for all.
My 7yo daughter is fair game when it comes to chew toys, her favorite game of "Pin the little girl on the floor for a half and hour", and general punking.
Oh yeah and when she poops in the house she takes the opportunity to start finger painting a new master piece. She actually enjoys playing with it and even eats it! Outside however, she will avoid it like the plague.

I have tried getting the family to show consistency, tried Lavish positive reinforcement, harsh negative reinforcement, blocking off parts of the house, pee pads, Crates, the list goes on. The bottom line is we ran out of idea's, so tonight I broke down and bought a shock collar.
I have to say that even on the first use we noticed a HUGE change!
Here is what happened tonight:
Right after I put the collar on Paige and got all the settings right (I really didn’t like the short sharp yelp when I got the setting too high), my daughter walked in holding a ball. Paige jumped on her to take it. As my daughter told her to stop I pushed the button. It stopped her for a few minutes but it wasn’t long before she was on my daughter again. I hit the button right when my daughter said no the second time, Paige got the idea and left her alone for the rest of the night.

Dinner time. As we sat down to eat, Paige immediately started munching my son’s dinner. My son yelled “NO” as I hit the button. It stopped her, but only for a few seconds. The next time I pressed the button before my son got a chance to stop her; Paige’s ears pricked up and she calmly walked to my side to lay down for the rest of dinner.
I haven’t had the opportunity to correct peeing in the house as she actually asked to go out for a change (I believe this is the first time).

I have been sitting here for the rest of the evening waiting for any of her normal mischievous activities that will require change. Not a single one! I don't know if I am dissapointed or elated. She has spent the whole evening cuddling with the kids, playing tug only with her own toys, and generally entertaining herself. I know it is only the first night, but I am TOTALLY amazed at how fast she caught on.
Seriously I am not making this up. She is very smart and has practically trained herself with just about everything else. I never realised all she needed for the rest was a little jolt.

[Anne]

Originally Posted by cobra240

This will be my first post here
Here are our problems:
While she knows to go potty outside, she will still go where she pleases.

Did anyone ever house train this dog or did she train herself?

Our dinner time is her free for all.
My 7yo daughter is fair game when it comes to chew toys, her favorite game of "Pin the little girl on the floor for a half and hour", and general punking.
Oh yeah and when she poops in the house she takes the opportunity to start finger painting a new master piece. She actually enjoys playing with it and even eats it! Outside however, she will avoid it like the plague.

And where are the people in the house whilst this is happening?

I have tried getting the family to show consistency, tried Lavish positive reinforcement, harsh negative reinforcement, blocking off parts of the house, pee pads, Crates, the list goes on. The bottom line is we ran out of idea's, so tonight I broke down and bought a shock collar.

I trust all this correction and pos/neg reinforcement was applied to the family and not the dog. The family clearly needs training.

I have to say that even on the first use we noticed a HUGE change!
Here is what happened tonight:
Right after I put the collar on Paige and got all the settings right (I really didn’t like the short sharp yelp when I got the setting too high), my daughter walked in holding a ball. Paige jumped on her to take it. As my daughter told her to stop I pushed the button. It stopped her for a few minutes but it wasn’t long before she was on my daughter again. I hit the button right when my daughter said no the second time, Paige got the idea and left her alone for the rest of the night.

Dinner time. As we sat down to eat, Paige immediately started munching my son’s dinner. My son yelled “NO” as I hit the button. It stopped her, but only for a few seconds. The next time I pressed the button before my son got a chance to stop her; Paige’s ears pricked up and she calmly walked to my side to lay down for the rest of dinner.
I haven’t had the opportunity to correct peeing in the house as she actually asked to go out for a change (I believe this is the first time).

I have been sitting here for the rest of the evening waiting for any of her normal mischievous activities that will require change.

It sounds like you are having lots of fun delivering shocks to your dog who is untrained through no fault of its own.

Not a single one! I don't know if I am dissapointed or elated. She has spent the whole evening cuddling with the kids, playing tug only with her own toys, and generally entertaining herself. I know it is only the first night, but I am TOTALLY amazed at how fast she caught on.
Seriously I am not making this up. She is very smart and has practically trained herself with just about everything else. I never realised all she needed for the rest was a little jolt.

And therein lies your problem. You didn't train your dog and now, without any professional advice and hands on instruction you have put an electronic collar on your dog (they are not called shock collars) and are shocking into submission.

Find yourself a decent trainer and get this dog trained properly. She deserves that much at least.

How is your dog supposed to know what to do when you have let her run riot.

I have not used an e-collar as I have never needed to. I am not against them as a training tool but I am certainly against people thinking they are a substitute for training and people who want to take the easy way out.

I trust you will not cause your dog enough pain to cause her to shut down.

[Sargeant_C]

Using the shock collar unproperly will cause severe problems. The dog will learn to tolerate that pain and then turn on you even worse.

Find a trainer and get the dog into training along with yourself.

[brunie's mom]

This is a 5 month old puppy for gosh sakes. She is still a baby. Why don't you put the shock collar on your children???? it would be the same thing. You should not shock a pup nor would you ever shock your children.

Would the children jump up and listen everytime you shocked them? Probably...would this be the way to teach them??? NOT!!

It seems like you have some MAJOR problems with this puppy....but a shock collar is not going to solve them. The pup may jerk and react the first little while...but she soon will resent being shocked. One day if your child is standing near the pup when you shock her...the pup may just attack the child...thinking the child is causing the pain.

I am also not against the shock collars....but I feel they should only be used on a mature dog that knows what you want and is doing something that is life threatening to you or it's self....like going after a car or other dogs. I also think a professional trainer that knows the use of a shock collar should be teaching you how to use it.

Stop shocking, get your pup into obedience classes...get the whole family involved in her training...use the crate when you cannot watch her or during meal times and you will soon have a well behaved pup.

There are no shortcuts raising a dog....takes lots of work and time and training.

Please do not ruin this pup by using a shock collar.

Gina

[spidey]

You do not know how to train a dog, you do not understand how dogs work, and you are now abusing your dog because of these two things. Take the shock collar back and use that money to enrol in some TRAINING classes. This is a PUPPY, she needs training, you have not trained her and you think shocking her randomly is going to do your job for you? Better yet, take the puppy back to her breeder and work on training your kids how to behave properly around animals and don't get another dog until ALL of you have a clue.

[moondog]

Originally Posted by cobra240

This will be my first post here, but I have a feeling it is going to be replied with a lot of anger.

There's no finer quality in life than a clear conscience, and if you had one you wouldn't preface your post in anticipation of a "correction".

Originally Posted by cobra240

I am the only one in the house she will listen to on any consistent basis. My wife has professional experience and has had some success, but the kids (7,9,12) are just plain clueless and practice just about every negative behavior that I have read here.

Kids should not be put in the position of training YOUR puppy without supervision and guidance. Sign this puppy up for obedience classes so YOU can learn how to train her positively and have your kids observe the classes. Then you can help the kids help the puppy. The way you're doing it now is not fair to either, and not good for either, either!

Originally Posted by cobra240

Here are our problems:
While she knows to go potty outside, she will still go where she pleases.
Our dinner time is her free for all.
My 7yo daughter is fair game when it comes to chew toys, her favorite game of "Pin the little girl on the floor for a half and hour", and general punking.
Oh yeah and when she poops in the house she takes the opportunity to start finger painting a new master piece. She actually enjoys playing with it and even eats it! Outside however, she will avoid it like the plague.

Sounds like a complete and total lack of supervision to me. There is no shortcut in raising a puppy, just like there is no shortcut in raising a child. Shortchange either by trying to take shortcuts, and well......you'll get what you asked for.

Originally Posted by cobra240

I have tried getting the family to show consistency, tried Lavish positive reinforcement, harsh negative reinforcement, blocking off parts of the house, pee pads, Crates, the list goes on. The bottom line is we ran out of idea's, so tonight I broke down and bought a shock collar.

Have you tried managing the household chaos so the puppy has a clue what is expected of her?

Originally Posted by cobra240

I have to say that even on the first use we noticed a HUGE change!
Here is what happened tonight:
Right after I put the collar on Paige and got all the settings right (I really didn’t like the short sharp yelp when I got the setting too high), my daughter walked in holding a ball. Paige jumped on her to take it. As my daughter told her to stop I pushed the button. It stopped her for a few minutes but it wasn’t long before she was on my daughter again. I hit the button right when my daughter said no the second time, Paige got the idea and left her alone for the rest of the night.

Dinner time. As we sat down to eat, Paige immediately started munching my son’s dinner. My son yelled “NO” as I hit the button. It stopped her, but only for a few seconds. The next time I pressed the button before my son got a chance to stop her; Paige’s ears pricked up and she calmly walked to my side to lay down for the rest of dinner.
I haven’t had the opportunity to correct peeing in the house as she actually asked to go out for a change (I believe this is the first time).

I have been sitting here for the rest of the evening waiting for any of her normal mischievous activities that will require change. Not a single one! I don't know if I am dissapointed or elated. She has spent the whole evening cuddling with the kids, playing tug only with her own toys, and generally entertaining herself. I know it is only the first night, but I am TOTALLY amazed at how fast she caught on.
Seriously I am not making this up. She is very smart and has practically trained herself with just about everything else. I never realised all she needed for the rest was a little jolt.

Well, I'm not impressed. You shocked the puppy into a big "SHUT UP, PUPPY!" and now you're proud of yourself because it "worked". Well, sure, it shut the life right out of her. Nothing to be proud of.

Get this puppy into obedience classes and put your new toy in the closet, or better yet, in the trash. There's no shortcut to raising a good dog.