Am I causing him to fear me?

[Sargeant_C]

Lately I have been jumping down Sarge's throat when he acts like the fool on the leash.. jumping up and down instead of walking normally. Yet he is cowering me when I yell now. I have never laid a hand on him nor will I ever. And when inside if DH is with us he goes to him over me. He does play with me still and wants our time but it used to be I overruled DH all the time.

So tonight I have him on his leash and I take him out and again the moron starts jumping up and biting the leash. I say in a firm voice Leave It and then I stop and ignore until he stopped. Off we go walking and he jumps up to bite the leash and bit me.. no broken skin and I Loudly say Leave It. I then place him in a sit and wait. We stood more then we walked. This went on numerous times and I finally yelled and he dropped to the ground. We then started walking again and when I gave the heel command he coward yet heeled.

Inside I have not been training him I view it as relax time since it is short times now. Inside is now fun time, we play with toys etc.

But outside I have been working him and now I see it as he is scared of me. Do I keep continuing what I am doing and hope that once he catches on that he will realize he is still my love or do I change my training.

[Tasha Turtle]

It sounds like you need to make some fun time outside as well. Have you tried a little more positive reinforcement when he is doing what you want him to do outside? It kind of sounds like he is shutting down on you.

[Imre0538]

May I suggest working with a choke chain or pinch collar if you are walking him with a flat collar on?? that way rather than yelling, you can simply give a firm command then follow up with correction.............it halfway sounds like he is still fighting the leash; also if you have a choke chain on in the proper positioning, and hold the leash in a relaxed manner, not firm enough to give a correction, yet enough to where your hand is almost at the catch part of the leash holding the collar in place then he only has 2 choices of where he can walk, in the heel position, or try to jump and such and get a correction. Also I have found that having a really good treat that you give on random sits helps with heeling and attention because they don't know when its coming. and simple praise such as a pat on the left shoulder or on the ribs with a 'good boy' is enough of encouragement but not too much that gets them all excited.
Thats what my boy would do and yelling only makes your head hurt and makes them hesitant to enjoy you. Try a choke chain and a firm 'I mean it' voice.
Good Luck.

[poohbearsmom]

Originally Posted by Sargeant_C

Lately I have been jumping down Sarge's throat when he acts like the fool on the leash.. jumping up and down instead of walking normally. Yet he is cowering me when I yell now. I have never laid a hand on him nor will I ever. And when inside if DH is with us he goes to him over me. He does play with me still and wants our time but it used to be I overruled DH all the time.

So tonight I have him on his leash and I take him out and again the moron starts jumping up and biting the leash. I say in a firm voice Leave It and then I stop and ignore until he stopped. Off we go walking and he jumps up to bite the leash and bit me.. no broken skin and I Loudly say Leave It. I then place him in a sit and wait. We stood more then we walked. This went on numerous times and I finally yelled and he dropped to the ground. We then started walking again and when I gave the heel command he coward yet heeled.

Inside I have not been training him I view it as relax time since it is short times now. Inside is now fun time, we play with toys etc.

But outside I have been working him and now I see it as he is scared of me. Do I keep continuing what I am doing and hope that once he catches on that he will realize he is still my love or do I change my training.

I hardly think this is an infraction that deserves yelling. Calm down. If you calm down, he will calm down. If you're coming down on him like the wrath of Dog, he will fear you and not trust you, just as his body language displays.

I tell my puppy class people, if you yell at your dog, it's just one dumb animal yelling at another dumb animal. Get the emotion out of the way, and use your head.

For every action, there is a reaction.

If you want a cowering dog, keep up what you're doing. If you want a cooperative dog, think about your actions, and how they will be conveyed to Sarge.

I always start training a behavior inside the house. There are no distractions. Pick a key phrase to use before you start your session. i.e. "Let's play" "Time to work" whatever... that way, he'll soon learn that it's time to pay attention to mom.

Once my dog has a good idea of what I want, I'll start to generalize the learning in my back yard, then my front yard, then in the street in front of the house.. then to a park, the training field, the vet's office, etc...

Correct him for the leash biting/arm swiping as you would a pup. Hand on his muzzle and squeeze with an authoritative NO. Then ask for a behavior he can succeed at. i.e. sit, down, etc...

He's going to your husband, because you've given him reason to mistrust you... he thinks he'll get in trouble (I had this problem a while back with my youngest boy who's very handler soft).

Bottom line... calm down.

[miccmill]

Once my dog has a good idea of what I want, I'll start to generalize the learning in my back yard, then my front yard, then in the street in front of the house.. then to a park, the training field, the vet's office, etc...

Correct him for the leash biting/arm swiping as you would a pup. Hand on his muzzle and squeeze with an authoritative NO. Then ask for a behavior he can succeed at. i.e. sit, down, etc...

I think this makes a really good point about how slow and methodical the process really should be.

I know for myself, when I've slowed down, it calms everyone down. Then we have more success in smaller pieces. I also get better attention.

[Sargeant_C]

I am dealing with the silly goofy dog. I do not have as much time with him and when he does see me it is all goofy. He is jumping up and down. I ignored him per Judi's advice. And then I would say Let's go work as I grab the leash.

I am calm just getting annoyed with his jumping up and down and he is so excited about being with me on walks that he is not calming down.
http://www.rottweiler.net/forums/tra...ming-down.html

This jumping and attacking the leash is going on for too long now. After I do make him sit, he gets a treat for listening. But when I cannot walk ten steps with him this is getting out of hand.

The reason I am training outside is becuz inside he listens perfect. And I am trying to give him the play time and the work time.

[Silvermarten]

Originally Posted by Sargeant_C

This jumping and attacking the leash is going on for too long now. After I do make him sit, he gets a treat for listening. But when I cannot walk ten steps with him this is getting out of hand.

I've got a goofy dog too . They are much too smart .
Sounds like he *may* have a chained behaviour going on in that he thinks 'jump, bite leash , sit , = yummy treat ' . It doesn't take much for them to learn a behaviour chain ( darn smart dogs ! ) .
As you cann't walk 10 steps back things up and walk 8 steps ( or less) have him sit and reward him . Reward the little success's and you'll be able to build on it . Also if you don't already as he's a big energetic guy that clearly wants to play , use that as a reward too . Short play sessions can be mixed in as rewards instead of constant treat rewards . But as he's excitable , keep the play calm while he learns control . It's helped my dog tremedously . He is starting to turn that excited attitude towards focusing on me and working longer with a very 'up' attitude . It takes a lot of time and patience .
What type of collar are you using for training ? Sounds like a properly fitting prong collar would be a good choice .
Just my thoughts

[spidey]

I suspect that maybe you're jumping ahead. If he listens perfectly inside, under all conditions, then I would move training to the back yard, or a small area. I don't think you need to have "play areas" and "work areas", my dog works when I say it's time to work, and plays when I say it's playtime, it doesn't matter where we are (and also, I don't want him to get into the habit of thinking that location has anything to do with work, I think this sets a very bad precedent) - and often playtime and worktime are the same time, since I use play as a reward.

I would also stop yelling, and make a point of making sure that at least some exercise and fun time takes place before you work - if you're dealing with a relatively young dog, who doesn't get to see you much, I'd do some play before work to take the edge off his energy and also to get him over the excitement of being with you, then do some work, then more play. I would also consider adding play to your training as a reward. If you make it clear that he'll get what he wants when he gives you want you want, you should have success, especially if you remember to lower your criteria every time you change locations.

In addition, I'd get some bitter apple and spray it on the lead in the areas he bites it, this can help break the habit.

[Sargeant_C]

I have been playing with him before I go outside to walk him. He does need his walks for excercises. However I cannot walk him when he is jumping like a fool.

Tis why play time inside and working him outside. When I do get home I completely ignore him do my things and then I bring him out, pet, grab the stuffies and play with him for a good half hour and then say lets walk. In the house I have placed the leash on him and he is fine. Once we go outside he then turns into goofy dog.

He is over a year old in fact he is 18 months so this should not be excusable. I have tried the apple bitter spray.. he likes it. Tried the tobasco sauce he really enjoyed that. Did a chain leash and yes he bit that, yet I worry about his teeth so I took that away.

For the collar I use numerous ones, mainly I use the flat collar because I am not trained on the prong and he does not pull he jumps.

I am not expecting perfect dog outside, I am however expecting to be able to walk with him. I cannot walk without tripping over him now. Or take steps backwards so he does not land on me. This starts in the yard so he can do his duties and I am attempting to move it further so we can go on long walks together.

Alo he is with his trainer outside and does fine.. DH goes to the trainer not me. ( schedule problem) So I have realized it is me and him problem. Tis why I upped my training with him.

[poohbearsmom]

Originally Posted by Sargeant_C

I am dealing with the silly goofy dog. I do not have as much time with him and when he does see me it is all goofy. He is jumping up and down. I ignored him per Judi's advice. And then I would say Let's go work as I grab the leash.

I am calm just getting annoyed with his jumping up and down and he is so excited about being with me on walks that he is not calming down.
http://www.rottweiler.net/forums/tra...ming-down.html

This jumping and attacking the leash is going on for too long now. After I do make him sit, he gets a treat for listening. But when I cannot walk ten steps with him this is getting out of hand.

The reason I am training outside is becuz inside he listens perfect. And I am trying to give him the play time and the work time.

If he's listening perfectly, why is he biting the lead and acting a fool? Think about the whole picture here. I know he's excited to be with you, that's a good thing... however... there's a time for silliness, and there's a time in which a good boy should listen, and be able to control himself..

Think about all the signals he's receiving from you, and I bet you can find an answer in there somewhere. You may be sending an unconscious cue to him - if you are, figure it out.

Handle his corrections in a calm, matter of fact manner, and get over the issue quickly - correct, divert, then give him something to do he can succeed at to maintain a good confidence level without shutting down and melting. ... that's the jyst of what I was attempting to convey earlier..

[Sargeant_C]

Inside he listens to me..outside he is the fool. I think I may have Dh watch us from afar and report what he sees. Maybe I am overlooking something. I give him several chances to knock it off before becoming firm with him.

I start off fine and basically just say Leave it in a normal voice, then place him in a sit. After awhile my voice goes deeper and I say Leave it.. after about 30 - 45 minutes ( still in the yard) I am Loud Deep and Firm Leave It Now! That is my jumping down his throat.. I do compliment him when I get him to sit or down or what have you and try to move on..

Maybe it is my body language.. I would not mind cutting them shorter but it starts immediately. I guess I will have to have DH watch me and see whats up... Maybe I am too tired to see the whole picture...

[poohbearsmom]

Originally Posted by spidey

I suspect that maybe you're jumping ahead. If he listens perfectly inside, under all conditions, then I would move training to the back yard, or a small area. I don't think you need to have "play areas" and "work areas", my dog works when I say it's time to work, and plays when I say it's playtime, it doesn't matter where we are (and also, I don't want him to get into the habit of thinking that location has anything to do with work, I think this sets a very bad precedent) - and often playtime and worktime are the same time, since I use play as a reward.

I would also stop yelling, and make a point of making sure that at least some exercise and fun time takes place before you work - if you're dealing with a relatively young dog, who doesn't get to see you much, I'd do some play before work to take the edge off his energy and also to get him over the excitement of being with you, then do some work, then more play. I would also consider adding play to your training as a reward. If you make it clear that he'll get what he wants when he gives you want you want, you should have success, especially if you remember to lower your criteria every time you change locations.

In addition, I'd get some bitter apple and spray it on the lead in the areas he bites it, this can help break the habit.

I completely concur - training should be energetic and fun, it is at our house.....which is why I have a special term/phrase (Let's play!) that I use when it's time to train... Doesn't matter where I am, I say it, and it's party time. When you encorporate play into the training, it's easier to channel your dog's excess energy and teach him control. A good training session usually finds my dogs' tongue's hanging to the floor, and ready for a nice rest - and me too!

The idea of generalizing training is very important. One must be sure that the dog REALLY has a good understanding of the requested behavior - this includes focus on you as the handler, before distractions are ever introduced.

Then, once the dog has a good clue, distractions and new environments are added only at a rate in which the dog can maintain good control, with only a check here and there. Behaviors should be built upon slowly - Rome wasn't built in a day, and a dog isn't really trained in a day, either.

It's important that your dog be able to obey you in every environment, inside, outside, or over yonder. It could save his life one day.

As I said a minute ago, he's not listening perfectly outside, if he's jumping all over you and biting at the leash. I'd suggest dealing with each behavior you're wanting to extinguish separately, and do it matter of factly, and fairly.

And remember what the goal is with a correction - to extinguish an unwanted behavior - if it ain't working, then you're not administering it correctly.

[poohbearsmom]

Originally Posted by Sargeant_C

Inside he listens to me..outside he is the fool. I think I may have Dh watch us from afar and report what he sees. Maybe I am overlooking something. I give him several chances to knock it off before becoming firm with him.

I start off fine and basically just say Leave it in a normal voice, then place him in a sit. After awhile my voice goes deeper and I say Leave it.. after about 30 - 45 minutes ( still in the yard) I am Loud Deep and Firm Leave It Now! That is my jumping down his throat.. I do compliment him when I get him to sit or down or what have you and try to move on..

Maybe it is my body language.. I would not mind cutting them shorter but it starts immediately. I guess I will have to have DH watch me and see whats up... Maybe I am too tired to see the whole picture...

My dog would not have several chances to knock off obnoxious behavior. That's not being honest with my dog - if I say no, I mean no. If I say sit, I mean sit. I don't ever ask twice. It makes for a dog that tests the limits, and I imagine it's quite confusing for him.

[Sargeant_C]

It should also be noted he has worked with me outside numerous times.. but because I have a change of schedule I have not worked with him much.

I used to be able to walk him all over town and back with no problems. He is used to me working him outside.. I used to go to parks where a ton of people hung out for distractions.

I also work on attention exercises numerous times a day.. that is something I have not slacked on.

[Sargeant_C]

Originally Posted by poohbearsmom

My dog would not have several chances to knock off obnoxious behavior. That's not being honest with my dog - if I say no, I mean no. If I say sit, I mean sit. I don't ever ask twice. It makes for a dog that tests the limits, and I imagine it's quite confusing for him.

This is where I am having the problems... When I say Leave it... I should not have to repeat. Tis why the many corrections.