collar musing

[debbiej]

I always use a prong on Boris. I have been thinking and wondering about when I will start using a choke chain on him, especially if he ever gets to the place where I can think about obedience with him. so tonight a full moon and wonderful cool breezes made us take both dogs out for a night time walk. well. John really does not like using the prong (I do not know why) so he slipped a choke chain on him. what a joke! He was an uncontrollable bombastic dope. I realized just how much more work he really needs! probably a good thing, because now I am really going to cut that boy no slack. forget this analysis of his past stuff. taking the tide bottle to class tomorrow night!

[lblax]

Originally Posted by debbiej

taking the tide bottle to class tomorrow night!

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!! dont let boris wear the prong or the choke except for training or walking when you get ready to do either one, then put them both on him after a few weeks of hard training with the leash hooked to the prong only then hook the leash to both collars then after a while rotate back and forth but always wearing both collars then eventually either will do, he will associate either collar with good corrections

[debbiej]

I'm confused... how do both collars work together?
he only wears prong when walking or training. the choke chain is not very effective with him. his leather collar is for house handle. I guess the bottle would just be one more distraction. hmmm.

[Miabella]

Help! What's the "tide bottle"? This is a real question, I am confused.

[lblax]

Originally Posted by debbiej

I'm confused... how do both collars work together?
he only wears prong when walking or training. the choke chain is not very effective with him. his leather collar is for house handle. I guess the bottle would just be one more distraction. hmmm.

he wears both the prong and the choke for training and walking you start out just hooking the leash to the prong(properly fitted high and snug) he knows he has both collars on. after several weeks of this then hook the leash onto the prong and the choke at the same time this way if he needs corrected he will feel both collars correcting him, after some time of success with tthis while wearing both collars only hook the leash to the choke collar.. in his mind he will realize that both the prong and the choke can have negative reactions for him if he doesnt behave and for a few months he realizes that he has two collars on and both and seperate can give corrections and really he doesnt know which is giving which get it???
at schutzhund clubs it is not unusual to se a dog wearing a fursaver a prong and an e-collar all at once

[debbiej]

ok, I get it. kind of like training wheels. I'm thinking the length of the chain is important in order to have both collars working correctly. the chain he has now is too long, I will get one that fits properly and give this a try. thanks!!

[Judi W]

Now I'm getting cranky! On the 15th you posted

"........... Boris has not been in classes consistantly enough to settle and pay attention to me, nor have I worked with him correctly or consistantly enough to have trained him to keep his attention on me when there are distractions.

so I think my question is what are good ways to train a dog to pay better attention?"

The answer of course is quite simple. To work with him correctly and consistently. He can't learn something that is not being taught and that has nothing to do with what collar he is wearning.

[debbiej]

true. I should explain. last night we took both dogs for walks. Boris was very excited to be going out with John, me and Hilda. I have been walking and training him every day and haven't missed a class. I use a prong. I was kind of surprised that without the prong he was so ill mannered. I thought he would be better behaved because he knew how to not pull, how to heel and sit. I am surprised that his behavior is so dependent on the control of the prong collar. and he isn't getting tons of corrections either. mostly vocal and praise. at least on our neighborhood walks.

[Judi W]

Well, if the daily training and not missing classes started after your post I quoted above, that just isn't good enough. Remember, it takes years. I'm sticking up for Boris whose training seems to go in fits and starts.

[lblax]

Originally Posted by debbiej

I was kind of surprised that without the prong he was so ill mannered. I thought he would be better behaved because he knew how to not pull, how to heel and sit. I am surprised that his behavior is so dependent on the control of the prong collar. .

judi is right it really shouldnt matter which collar although in your case and many others it is a simple fact that while you administer a fairly good correction with a prong he is respecting that and not neccsarily your relationship so when you change collars he blows you off this is not uncommon or anything to be ashamed of many people never achieve a level where the dog responds the same regardless of collor or whether they are on lead or not... so i guess this leaves you two choices you can trick and condition him into thinking that the prong and the choke are virtually the same tool or you can get tuff and consistant with him thats up to you

[debbiej]

update on class tonight. Today I got some good advice on proper fit of the prong and some help with philosophy of correction. I had been using it a link too loose. so put collar on, tight and high and went to class. with the first correction I got better attention. in 15 minutes I knew he was really with me, and really cared about doing what I wanted him to do. he was actually the best behaved dog in class! half way through class I was totally relaxed, praising him and receiving PERFECT behavior. even sat in line to do sit stays. this is a beginning class, we only moved a foot or so away, but another dog was 3' away beside him! I feel like a huge weight is off my shoulders. tight is right!!