How to train Stay and Come

[rhylmarova]

Hi guys,

I have finally found a trainer whos classess we will attend starting end of this month. She has been recommended to us by another dog owner who I met on the walk few days ago. She has a friend -breeder of Rotties and a friend - owner of Rotti. Both swear by the trainer as she is specialized in Rotties.
So hopefully, we will both like her too.

But I want to continue working on commands until than at home.

We are good at sit, down, give pawn and leave it. Working hard on drop it. We can fetch.

On the walk today, I have been practising no pulling on the leash by stopping each time he pulled. It was pretty good and we will keep at it.

But I need advise how to best teach Stay and Come. We have been teaching it initially with treats but for Stay (also following Judi's comment on one of the posts), the food is making him follow me without me giving any command. Which kind of spoils the Come as well. What is the best way to teach these?
He is 18wks.

THANKS

Renata

[Carol Burke]

Put him in a sit positon at heel (sitting at your left side). Tell him to stay using your voice and a hand signal(hand with palm toward him and put in front of his face), then pivot out in front of him, stand there for a few seconds, pivot back to heel position release and praise. After he stays reliably walk out a little further, turn and stand in front of him. Always leave on your right foot. If he breaks the stay put him back and move in closer to him.
It is difficult to teach a formal come until he knows stay. To teach a casual come, while walking on his leash start to back up and call him to you. Make coming to you really exciting, lots of praise.

[rhylmarova]

Thanks for advise! I will start today. Also, a trainer is coming to home visit, which we will follow by attending her classes so hopefully, we will be on the way to learn more.

[Brutus's Mom]

Carol Burke] After he stays reliably walk out a little further, turn and stand in front of him. Always leave on your right foot.

Is this because you would normally start with your left foot when heeling, and you are differentiating here?

[Carol Burke]

Originally Posted by Brutus's Mom

Is this because you would normally start with your left foot when heeling, and you are differentiating here?

Yes, your left foot is your "action foot", your right foot is your "stay foot". It is amazing how quickly a dog will pick up on this.

[Carol Burke]

Another thing, once you start doing recalls from the stay position, your command to the dog when you leave and you are going to ultimately call him is "wait" because "stay" means stay there until I come back and "wait " means I am going to give you another command.

[Brutus's Mom]

Thank you, I have done some OB training but was never taught that!! Makes sense!!

[Brutus's Mom]

Originally Posted by Carol Burke

Another thing, once you start doing recalls from the stay position, your command to the dog when you leave and you are going to ultimately call him is "wait" because "stay" means stay there until I come back and "wait " means I am going to give you another command.

That makes so much sense, but then again, isn't that like giving the same command two different names? What then happens when you only want them to "stay", isn't that confusing?

I have always used the "wait" command, but not when teaching them the "stay", usually only when I am going to the door or when doing something where I want them to wait a minute. Thank you!! 20 years of Rott experience and still learning!!!

[rhylmarova]

The wait or stay thing is handy. I was a bit confused about which one to use..makes complete sense. Will implement. Btw, got a trainer in to show me first tricks. She does clicker training and showed by how to make him work all the time even when playing...pulled some tricks on him couple of days in a row now and he's been much better (meaning not naughty) boy. :-))

[rottsnroses]

That makes so much sense, but then again, isn't that like giving the same command two different names? What then happens when you only want them to "stay", isn't that confusing?

"Wait" means stay where you are until I give you a command or signal. "Stay" means stay where you are, no matter what, until I return to you and you are released. Before I leave on a stay (I also leave on my right foot), I give the hand signal Carol described in front of the dogs face. On a wait, the signal is different, I wave my palm in front of my dogs face.

Also, on a wait, my hands are straight down at my sides when I am facing my dog, and on a stay, they are crossed in front of me across my chest until I have returned to my dog.

These dogs are smart and quickly learn the difference.

Also, it was helpful for me to learn that come is not an action, it is a place, and the same for heel. It is a place, whether you are moving or not makes no difference. It is the position that must be maintained by the dog, no matter whether I am stopped, walking, running, or going slow. Once I understood this concept, clicker training really helped me to teach my dogs exactly where that place is.

[rhylmarova]

I went out for walk with other dog owners today, one of which is a trainer. She suggested that I use Wait instead of Stay as my dog does not understand Stay and keeps breaking it..thus me confusing him for the future. She actually suggested that I wait with the STAY command until he is a bit older...lets say 6 months. Any thought on that?

On the other hand...we got a compliment on our sit and recall! :-)

[Carol Burke]

Using wait or stay makes no difference, the dog is still expected to stay in position until you return with stay or you call him with wait. In order to teach a reliable stay(using either command) you cannot let him break the command. You need to stay in close enough where you can put him back in position immediately. When you leave him you need to return within a few seconds and give lots of praise if he succeeds in staying. By only using wait and allowing him to break the stay you are teaching him bad habits.

[rhylmarova]

Thanks for that. I think it is for second time today when I realized that the lady I met today who is planning to run trainer classes may not be the best source of information. Acting on her advise, I let down my pup in fear situation (as nicely explained by another member on behaviour board) and feel like a silly cow now...

THANKS, I will work on it the way I have done before!