When competitiveness drives pushing a dog too hard

[Ilovemypuppy]

I see this in our weekly training sessions. There are those handlers who are super competitive and HAVE to have the super high scores, even at the expense of a happy, working dog. It really bothers me to see these dogs wilt from frustration and stress.

The high scores are nice indeed, but , in my mind...a dog's life is very short, so it should be made a happy one. I do believe that this breed is happiest when it is working. You can train for the best performance possible, sure...but to me, a happy, working dog is truly a thing of beauty.

Thoughts anyone ?

[sophie's-mom]

I think it is the same as those parents that are really hard on their children in athletics.........SUCCEED.........SUCCEED......... SUCCEED!! at ALL costs!

makes it no fun for the child or dog and only FRUSTRATING for the parent or handler.

Of course if the parent or handler could actually DO the sport or work.........they wouldn't be on the sidelines BITCHING!

So REALLY, aren't they only showing their OWN shortcomings???

[majicka]

My trainer and I were discussing this a few weeks ago. She told me when I go to a show, look at the dogs and people who are having a good time and thriving on the thrill of being in the competition...those are the people I want to talk to for advice and training tips.


My club keeps trying to push me into Agility. Happy doesn't like it, so I'm not going to make him do it. I want my dog to be excited about working and to enjoy what he is doing. I don't want a dog who 'goes thru the motions' just because *I* want him to have a title.

[Stubby]

I've seen this in dogs and handlers in Schutzhund and OB work. It's exhasperating for me to even watch sometimes.
Dog's that get all shut down when handlers use to much compulsion really gets to me. There was a woman at OB class that had a nice little retriever. Poor thing didn't work just rigth for her and she would slam it every opportunity. Poor dog didn't know what to do. It did what it was asked, it got slammed, didn't do what was asked it got slammed. Poor thing was completely shut down.

Me, I like to work a dog, and like to see US suceed as a team, but, I refuse to do anything to jeoprodize the mental or physical health of my dog.

[Miabella]

A stressed out dog is not going to give a good performance, so it comes back to bite those handlers in the butt. However, it is often the dog that suffers because the handler just sees the dog as "blowing them off" and corrects even more. It's a vicious circle.

[Ilovemypuppy]

One particular handler today, has a sweet little Sheltie. I have talked about Travis before and how hard she is on him. He won't come in close enough on the recalls because he is scared to death of her. Last week when he didnt come in close enough, she grabbed him by the scruff and hauled him right in to her nasty big, ole feet.

I did speak up and said "I wouldn't come any closer to you either , if I were him !"

She did lighten up a bit this week, but he still has fear in his eyes. I just makes me sick.

I know this dog is a great little working dog because I free style danced with him. His tail was up and wagging and he had a big smile the whole time and never missed a beat.

I too, would never jeopardize my relationship with my girl or her physical or mental well being for the sake of a ribbon. We have fun or we don't do it...whatever that may be.

[Luvs]

I would LOVE to get really high scores, heck I would be THRILLED to get HIT some day, but NOT at the expense of my dog.
Akasha REALLY enjoys working. The silly girl even likes to heel. A lot of people have told me that dogs hate heeling, but if you saw Akasha during our heeling, you would know without a doubt she is having a great time. During heeling she is prancing alongside of me the entire time. She is so enthusiastic in everything she does. Sure we lose points for that enthusiasm, but I don't care. I would much rather have a dog that races back to me as fast as she can and slides to a stop, maybe bumping me a little or a lot, depending on her level of enthusiasm. I couldn't stand if she just walked kind of ho hum back to me. That to me is a dog who is not really enjoying the work.

I have been told on more than one occassion that Akasha could be a HIT dog. If to get HIT or really high scores I need a dog that is trained with a great deal of compulsion and is unhappy in the work, then I don't want HIT or high scores. I am pretty darn happy with the scores she has gotten thus far.
I think that as she matures and gets a little more training on her that maybe someday a HIT could be in our future. She isn't even 3 yet, so we have plenty of time I don't care if it never happens, altho I admit it would be nice . I am VERY proud of what we have accomplished together. She has by far exceeded all my expectations!!!! My relationship with my girl and OUR enjoyment in the work is of the utmost importance!!!

[Stubby]

Originally Posted by Ilovemypuppy

I did speak up and said "I wouldn't come any closer to you either , if I were him !"

She did lighten up a bit this week, but he still has fear in his eyes. I just makes me sick.

Good for you Jory.


It'll take a LONG time for that fear to go away, she has to start from scratch and rebuild the trust relationship with her dog.

[Patty1231]

What bothers me even more than this is the people who have arthritic or HD dogs and keep upping their medication JUST so they can get through a trial. That's just plain sad, to me. And the kicker is, I know a couple of these people really love their dogs - I don't know what their thinking is and don't understand the push to compete with a dog that is no longer physically capable.

[Miabella]

Originally Posted by Patty1231

What bothers me even more than this is the people who have arthritic or HD dogs and keep upping their medication JUST so they can get through a trial. That's just plain sad, to me. And the kicker is, I know a couple of these people really love their dogs - I don't know what their thinking is and don't understand the push to compete with a dog that is no longer physically capable.

I agree. Actually, we had to pull aside a club member who was forcing a GSD with back problems to jump. The dog was yelping in pain, it was disgusting. That was a fun conversation.

[frontierrots]

I've seen plenty of the yank my dog around because they aren't giving a 200 performance people, even when the dog is doing a darn great job! Teamwork and fun is so much more important than the final score. Sure we all want great scores but not at that expense I don't

Then there are the glory competitors. You know those that trialand trial and trial to get rankings. There is a local one here (name and breed withheld) who if she had a Rott, he'd be giving her the big ol' finger for boring the crap out of him! She has a pleasant dog, notspectacular but ya know he may have been before she trialed him to death. Anyhow this dog is nationally ranked in the top 5 for his breed, he's an AKC/UKC/CKC OTCH, he has his MX and MXJ and he's a UDX 18. Yes I said 18. Holey crap! What is the point? Isn't there something else she could be doing with him? Rally? Tracking? Freestyle??? Something? Nope. she trials the crap out of this dog. a UDX is 10 double q's (open and utility). That is a whole lot of trialing at the same old same old same old crap. Now his performances are accurate, but they lack any personality, any pizazz any life at all. he's just a robot out there earnng ranking points for his owner
I can't even watch anymore it makes me way too sad for the dog :(

[Rottlva]

To top it all off, the UDX 18 dog wears a red collar (see collar thread ). Yes. Some people compete for the relationship and goals, others for the pure shrill of beating others....

[debbiej]

this thread is very interesting to me. I took Hilda to the vet last week for a new twist to her walk, and a funky hock. I asked the vet, is it the obedience? we can stop. She asked me does she like to do it? I thought about how excited she is to go to class, how she sits proudly, smiling at me when the other dogs break their stay and wander. how she just generally shows off. how she just loves to 'do something' with me. after this trial, I may just rethink doing anymore, but she does love it, so we may find something else to do. I'm thinking of therapy work, maybe. And Boris is a lot less happy about class than he used to be, but then he thought it was something other than obedience.

[Judi W]

On the other hand, the "real" OTCH people in our club (by that I mean people who have had several dogs with the OTCH, not just hung their entire ego on one poor dog) are not like that at all and thoroughly enjoy their dogs. Sunday I had a guy with his BC which already has its OTCH in the B classes. He only got a 2 1/2 in the Open class. When walking out after awards he grinned and said to me, "yep, you were right on. That seems to be where he's been working lately. He's getting consistent at that!" He enjoys his dog, they have a good time together.

Sometimes the people I've seen who pound the dogs, do so with their first dog because they don't want to let up and have to start with a new dog where they just might not be so successful. Then there are the ones who think they have a national reputation who keep getting new dogs until they get the one that can handle their training.

Most of us train the dogs we own and enjoy. I really don't see more than a very few who view their dogs as a piece of sporting equipment.

[miccmill]

I went to an agility trial last spring as a spectator. There were a lot of Border Collies and Retrievers. I thought every team looked like they were enjoying it even if the BC's were nuts.

There was only one Rottweiler. Her owner and she came out and did what seemed like a really slow run but that Rotti's eyes were on her and she looked happy and proud. They were also the only team that did a clean run.

I thought "yeah, that's how I will want it to be when I have a dog in a sport." I really liked the way that looked.