Need help on getting my dog to move out of the shade

[fbkeays]

How do you teach a dog to willingly move from shade to sun without leash correction (like that would actually work- ha!) or copious amount of yummy food?
This weekend Duncan COULD have gotten his RN title, except part of the ring was in shade and part of the ring was in sun. He worked until he hit shade and then refused to move his 103-pound body from the spot.
I need some way to convince this very smart and very ring wise dog into actually move his body in sunlight. Duncan has drive. He has drive for herding, food, and a comfy couch. He doesn’t have drive for much else.
On Saturday Denise took him into the ring. How he got him in the ring was quite ingenious. Duncan is very suspicious of rings. He does not enter rings unless he is being fed. If he is being fed, then he knows he is going into a conformation ring and he will get more food to actually gait. Duncan has mastered the technique of eating and gaiting at the same time. He actually insists on it<G>.
Denise and Duncan approach the ring entrance and Duncan puts on the brakes. He will not move forward. Denise, for her first time in an actual AKC event, is thinking. She turns him around and backs him into the ring. Duncan knows how to back up from carting and conformation training. So she backs him up about 10 feet, walks past him and he turns with her. They are at the start sign. Things went fairly well until the 10th exercise. The sign was in shade. The sign said, “About U turn”. Duncan started the turn and then realized if he completed the turn, he would be back in sun. Duncan froze and Denise tried to move him. They got excused.
I took him in on Sunday. Fortunately the ring entrance was in a different spot and it didn’t have the usual look of a ring opening. Plus it was in shade<G>. Duncan and I walked in. The third exercise was in sun, but the shade here was from a large tree so there was not a clear line between shade and sun until it was too late.
The 7th exercise was a double weave (they call it a figure 8, but it is 4 cones that you weave and then weave back through). On the last cone we have to circle it. One small area that we had to cross to finish the circle was in shade from the canopy. Duncan fit his whole body in that little spot of shade and would not budge.
Living in CA there is not too many rally trials that are indoors. Any suggestions on how to get my Duncan to brave the sun while in a ring?

[Miabella]

I dunno, pray for rain?

The only thing I can think of is train at home in bright sun so he is used to it. But if he really hates obedience that much, maybe you should listen to him and just concentrate on herding. Since he's already a nice, well-mannered dog with his CD, I see no reason to keep pounding a square peg into a round hole if it's not enjoyable for him.

[Carol Burke]

Originally Posted by Miabella

I dunno, pray for rain?

The only thing I can think of is train at home in bright sun so he is used to it. But if he really hates obedience that much, maybe you should listen to him and just concentrate on herding. Since he's already a nice, well-mannered dog with his CD, I see no reason to keep pounding a square peg into a round hole if it's not enjoyable for him.

Sounds like good advice to me. If you are determined to get a RN you need to train in the sun and somehow make him, if not enjoy it, at least comply. But as Miabella says, why pound a square peg into a round hole. Train on his strengths and what he enjoys instead of frustrating him and yourself.

[fbkeays]

I am not sure that he doesn't enjoy it, I think he enjoys being stubborn more. He is being a mule. He really does have excellent obedience skills. He took 4th place in open A at the 2004 ARC nationals. Of course that was on April 1st too. I think that was his secret April Fool's joke on me.
His herding days are numbered. He is getting up there in age. The next AHBA herding trial will be New Year's and I think that might be his last. His handler groaned when I told her that I had entered him.
October is about the only month that we have sun where I live. Unfortunately there is no obedience competitions where I live. Yesterday I did have him out in the sun and practiced some rally exercises in and out of the sun/shade. He was beautiful. Rally is something that he can physically do.
Interesting enough, I did bring the dumbbell and tried retrieveing. He ran out and and sniffed it and then started to sniff the grass all the way around. I went out and commanded he take the db and had him fronting me as I ran backwards back to the start. I threw the db a second time and sent him. He repeated the sniffing. So I took him by the collar and started to lead him back to the van. He put on the brakes and I had to drag him back to the van.
I think it is interesting that the advice I got was to reward him blowing me off and disobeying me by not do rally again. How many times have we told people that let their dog walk over them and take charge to take back the leadership? How many times has Judi said that it doesn't matter what the dog thinks, they can do these simple exercises? It wasn't 100 degrees, it was 70 degrees.

[moondog]

Originally Posted by fbkeays

I think it is interesting that the advice I got was to reward him blowing me off and disobeying me by not do rally again. How many times have we told people that let their dog walk over them and take charge to take back the leadership?

Well, I don't think he's going to recognize not doing rally "again" as a reward - that would only apply to a particular exercise.

Originally Posted by fbkeays

He is being a mule. He really does have excellent obedience skills.

If he has excellent obedience skills, and you find he is being a "mule", then perhaps his excellent response has been required of him to the point of tuning it (and you) out? The sniffing is avoidance, just like using a transition from shade to sun to balk at is. How about giving him a break from obedience for a month or two and then going back fresh?

[Judi W]

I'd be more inclined to believe that he's been mostly doing the fun stuff lately and the have-to stuff hasn't really been a priority for quite a while so from his point of view it has gone away. I'd probably do about 10 minutes of "have to" heeling several times a week as a reminder of the general rules of teamwork and then the motivation exercises.

[moondog]

Originally Posted by Judi W

I'd be more inclined to believe that he's been mostly doing the fun stuff lately and the have-to stuff hasn't really been a priority for quite a while so from his point of view it has gone away. I'd probably do about 10 minutes of "have to" heeling several times a week as a reminder of the general rules of teamwork and then the motivation exercises.

If that's the case, then I agree with you! It seems the planets aren't aligning, and that can be from either too much or not enough.

[Judi W]

Well, from my experience of having many of these dogs go into older age this is what quite naturally occurs. They require so very little instruction (if any) in daily life and we tend to pretty much limit their other activities to self-directed stuff. I've always made it a point to take even my geriatrics out on lead and do a few heels and sits and a come or two now and then simply as a reminder and "just because". It always makes me smile a bit as they say "who me???"