Aggression

[habitual]

Okay, so since my very first post about aggression we have had a personal trainer come in and work with our youngest dog. Our other two are already trained. The female basic the oldest male up to PP. Anyhow, I was talking to the trainer about a fight that happened between my two males and that since then I have had them both completely seperated from eachother. They only see eachother as they pass their crates. My Trainer did say that after quite some detail and a very, very long conversation, and a lengthy description on how to do it that we could ( my hubby and I) put our dogs nose to nose -on leashes and the isntant they start to posture or growl to whack them hard on the nose with a wooden dowel. What are your thoughts and opinions on this?? If you would like more information I can give it to you, if I haven't given enough to form an opinion on.

[habitual]

LOL- that's what I said to the trainer. Then I asked the trainer- what if I broke their noses and he gave me chuckle and said that if I could break one of their noses, I have got to be the world's strongest person. Apparently, I am suppose to whack them hard and very quickly.

[SonnyRott]

It sounds absurd. Then after you whack them HARD on the nose with a wooden dowel...then what???? Wash, rinse and repeat????? Can't see how this will make them tolerate each other or you for that matter (not to mention the wooden dowel).

Utterly absurd!

[debbiej]

I don't think I agree with that at all. I think there are better ways to deal with dog dog aggressions, depending on the age of the dogs and the severity of the aggression.

[1more~alwaysbetter]

Originally Posted by SonnyRott

It sounds absurd. Then after you whack them HARD on the nose with a wooden dowel...then what???? Wash, rinse and repeat????? Can't see how this will make them tolerate each other or you for that matter (not to mention the wooden dowel).

Utterly absurd!

I agree. Seems to me that would be considered abuse!
Thinkin you need a different trainer.
Smashing their noses would probably get them more agressive towards one another?
Perhaps the trainer knows 'cuse his wife knocks him on the head with a rolling pin when she feels agressive towards him

[Cash]

Nose them off, wait for the inevitable & reprimand...

- THEN WHAT - ??

Do your boys know what you are asking them to do after they’ve been set up to do what you don’t want them to? Forgive me, I haven’t read all of your posts, and I don’t know your entire story but there seems to be an integral piece of the puzzle missing in your trainers philosophy.

[Anne]

I would be getting another trainer. Run away from this one fast.

[BostonRott]

The answer to "then what" is "drive yourself to the emergency room" because most likely you're going to need that bite checked out.

Aggression is NOT best treated with more aggression and by whacking them on the nose with a wooden dowel you're going to take a simmering pot and push it immediately to a full boil.

I would STRONGLY suggest a new trainer if this represents the extent of this person's knowledge.

Having had 2 sets of bitches who wanted to kill each other, and having tried to do some desensitization work with little success, I can tell you that you'd NEVER get so far as to have them that close. The posturing and stiffness/hackling will start LONG before you get them "nose to nose."

Keep the dogs apart.

[UnclLou]

The appropriate tool for this is NOT a wooden dowel, it's a short length of garden hose and then it's a last resort before the dog is put to sleep.

[habitual]

Originally Posted by BostonRott

The answer to "then what" is "drive yourself to the emergency room" because most likely you're going to need that bite checked out.

Aggression is NOT best treated with more aggression and by whacking them on the nose with a wooden dowel you're going to take a simmering pot and push it immediately to a full boil.

I would STRONGLY suggest a new trainer if this represents the extent of this person's knowledge.

Having had 2 sets of bitches who wanted to kill each other, and having tried to do some desensitization work with little success, I can tell you that you'd NEVER get so far as to have them that close. The posturing and stiffness/hackling will start LONG before you get them "nose to nose."

Keep the dogs apart.

Do you mind if I ask you what kind of desensitization work you tried? I know that they will not start to posture or hackle upon first seeing each other or if being in the same room under cose supervisation. They will however, when one tries to leave the room before the other or if one feels that the other is getting the attention that they feel they should get- if that makes any sense lol. Right now they are ket completely separated from eachother except for the passing by crates. I am not opposed to continuing like this by all means, but it would be nice to know if I can or cannot desensitize them some towards this. I guess you must be pretty experienced with having been through this. Thanks for your insight and i am looking forward to some more!

[habitual]

Originally Posted by UnclLou

The appropriate tool for this is NOT a wooden dowel, it's a short length of garden hose and then it's a last resort before the dog is put to sleep.

Why would the dog need to be put to sleep due to dog dog aggression? I would like you to explain to me please and thank you so I can understand where you are coming from.

[KarinA]

it's a short length of garden hose

Please tell me what the garden hose is for.

[LavenderRott]

Wow. I don't think I would follow the advice of a trainer that told me to set my dog(s) up for failure and then beat them with a wooden stick! Or a garden hose either.

[BostonRott]

I would suggest you buy the book "Fight" by Donaldson and read it, it covers this topic well (desensitization). I am not going to try to explain it over the web, I feel that would be woefully inadequate.

I will say that desensitization did not work for me and the dogs had to be kept permanently apart.

[habitual]

Originally Posted by Cash

Nose them off, wait for the inevitable & reprimand...

- THEN WHAT - ??

Do your boys know what you are asking them to do after they’ve been set up to do what you don’t want them to? Forgive me, I haven’t read all of your posts, and I don’t know your entire story but there seems to be an integral piece of the puzzle missing in your trainers philosophy.

The trainers philosphy is this;-and I am not saying I agree or disagree this is where I am asking everyone's opinions

If you stop the aggression before it gets a chance to start, it doesn't mean that they will ever be able o live peacefully left alone together but that they can at least respect not to fight or get aggressive in front of us.