Aggression

[UnclLou]

Originally Posted by Judi W

Don't know that anyone used the word "never". I know I did not

See the last line of Boston Rott's post just above my last one. He wrote, " and no, they never get better."

[BostonRott]

Originally Posted by UnclLou

See the last line of Boston Rott's post just above my last one. He wrote, " and no, they never get better."

Ahem......SHE wrote.

[UnclLou]

Originally Posted by BostonRott

I think that 99% of inter-dog aggression does not get better

It looks as if my experience with this has been quite different from yours.

Originally Posted by BostonRott

and to suggest that an owner whom one has never evaluated try an internet article to fix a dangerous problem comes across as irresponsible to me.

You're being ruled by your experience. Mine has been that this protocol has stopped all DTD aggression no matter what its cause. You may not get the playing and frolicking that you'll see on the videotape that I mention but you'll surely get "tolerance" of the other dogs.

Originally Posted by BostonRott

Any articles/books that I've read on the topic also show that once a dog reaches a certain level of biting, chances of rehab are poor.

Well, since you've just read my article and it says that it can be done, you've seen another opinion. Just because some people can't do it, hardly means that it can't be done; especially if a completely new tack is taken in approaching the problem.

[UnclLou]

Originally Posted by BostonRott

Ahem......SHE wrote.

Oops, sorry Gretchen. I missed your signature line. DUH.

[habitual]

Originally Posted by BostonRott

I did and I think that 99% of inter-dog aggression does not get better and to suggest that an owner whom one has never evaluated try an internet article to fix a dangerous problem comes across as irresponsible to me.

Any articles/books that I've read on the topic also show that once a dog reaches a certain level of biting, chances of rehab are poor.

Are you referring to me as an irresponisble owner?
I only asked people questions and advice to get different viewpoints on the method being used and to hear about other peoples experience (like yourself) in these kinds of dealings.

My dogs together have never been in a severe fight. My oldest dog however, was rescued out of being a bait dog.
The fighting that they have been in together have been short lived and have not been an all out blood brawl.

[habitual]

Originally Posted by BostonRott

What I tried to tell you earlier is that "the first sign" will be LONG before they are even close to "nose to nose." You'll see stiffening, hackling, growling, etc when they are still many feet apart. It doesn't "just" start as they get nose to nose. AND adding your own aggression (hitting) to the situation is going to put it into fast foward and you'll elicit a lovely fight. If the dogs are on leash, you've removed "flight" from "fight or flight" and they WILL fight.

Several times I have chronicled the saga of what happened here with my husband ending up with $30,000 worth of emergency hand surgery (and 2 fingers that still don't bend correctly), and one dog in the ER, and another permanently placed. This was after 18mos of total separation and one split-second of forgetfulness. Search on bitch aggression, you'll find the posts. Living with separated dogs is NOT something to take lightly, and no, they never get better.

I am not sure if I myself could ever use this method, however, doing research via the net, there are alot of sites that suggest this or very similiar techniques. Somes sites say you'll never get the dogs to ignore eachother, in my type of setting others say it can be achieved. The part of me adding my own aggression into the mix, I am right now seeing both objectives on the fence but will NOT do anything either way until I feel 100% I am doing the right thing. This is also why I am asking the opinions and perpectives, and experiences of everyone here. I do value your expereince here just as much as everyone else's.

I am also quite aware of the posturing that occurs as well as the looks, ears and what have you with the males when they are in a confrontation. I understand that females don't always do this, so maybe I'm lucky.

[UnclLou]

I"m not a big fan of "the hit the dog over the nose with the garden hose" method. Sometimes people get bitten and often you can't tell if your dog is the one who will do it until he's attached ot you by his teeth.

[habitual]

Originally Posted by UnclLou

I"m not a big fan of "the hit the dog over the nose with the garden hose" method. Sometimes people get bitten and often you can't tell if your dog is the one who will do it until he's attached ot you by his teeth.

That's not the way I would like to find out lol.

[BostonRott]

Originally Posted by habitual

Are you referring to me as an irresponisble owner?

No, that's not at all what I said. Go back and re-read. The comment was not directed towards you.

[habitual]

Originally Posted by BostonRott

No, that's not at all what I said. Go back and re-read. The comment was not directed towards you.

Okay, I just wasn't sure,thanks.

[athenagirl]

I currently have 3 rotties all sharing a relatively small space considering the size of them. My two males have never gone after each other with the intent of hurting the other even though they can both be very dominant. I think the worst thing you could do is use that type of punishment on this breed of dog. I don't think either one of my dogs would stand for it. Is there something that sets them off or has this always been a problem?

[HerculesMomma]

Forgive me for jumping in here. But is the issue that one of these dogs is "dog aggressive" or is it coming down to a same sex dog/dominance dog issue? I would assume if you had a dog who was dog aggressive you might be able to desensitize, but if it's the same sex dog aggression where they are fighting for status, then it seems there would be little hope of changing that. Am I off my rocker in that way of thinking?

[habitual]

Originally Posted by HerculesMomma

Forgive me for jumping in here. But is the issue that one of these dogs is "dog aggressive" or is it coming down to a same sex dog/dominance dog issue? I would assume if you had a dog who was dog aggressive you might be able to desensitize, but if it's the same sex dog aggression where they are fighting for status, then it seems there would be little hope of changing that. Am I off my rocker in that way of thinking?

You are right on! The youngest now wants to take over ranks. The youngest has also started barking at other dogs walking past our property when he is outside ( he has never done that before) In fact that has just started this past week. So maybe it is both then? The trainer comes back on Monday and I will talk to him about that, in the meantime, I am up for hearing everyone's thoughts and opinions on the OP and on him barking at these other dogs now.

Thanks

[HUGGYBEAR]

From what I've heard due to my newly multiple rottie home, some dogs can love each other and some merely tolerate each other; also, sorry to say this, but I have been told that having 2 animals of the same sex, and one or both aren't spayed or neutered isnt too much of a good idea. If you are going to breed both, then you may have to resort to keeping them separated for the rest of their lives.

[HUGGYBEAR]

Posted by UnclLou Never say never. I've worked with a couple of DTD's (Dog To Dog aggressive dogs). One was a confirmed dog fighter that I rescued. He'd been in several fights and had avoided giving lethal bites only by luck and fractions of an inch. At the time I had three other dogs in my home, none of whom were DTD aggressive. I used the protocol that's on my website that I developed for Crittering. He never learned to play with the other dogs but he tolerated them for the rest of his life. I'd leave them alone when I went to work for up to 12 hours and there was never any trouble.

The diff. with your dogs was that it wasnt a dom. struggle it was him by himself acting up so you just had to taper his behavior not anothers behavior towards him also. It wasnt an "I wanna be top dog dammit!" situation like this.
-On a lighter note, do the males respect you and your hubby as the "alpha" of the pack?